3 years ago
Brandon Wade – Arrangements are the Future of Dating

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Believe it or not, my first kiss didn’t happen until I was 21 years old.

When you’re a teenager, appearances are everything, and I didn’t have a shot. I was an incredibly shy and lonely boy.

In college, I’d watch my peers fall in and out of bed with one another, biding my time until it was my turn to be loved. Around 25, the tide changes for women. Popularity is no longer a factor, and women start to look for less superficial qualities in their partners.

While attractive girls were being wooed away by handsome men my age, there I stood, the lonely geek. Little girls grow up believing they will find Mr. Right who is wealthy, successful and handsome.

I was two out of three, but when was I going to get my chance at love?

But my mother had instilled an important principle in me at a very young age. She told me that “one day, when you are wealthy and successful, your generosity will turn things around.”

And she was right.

To read the rest of Brandon’s Op-Ed please visit CNN.com.

Don’t forget to watch “This is Life” with Lisa Ling premiering this Sunday on CNN at 10 pm PST. Her first episode will explore SeekingArrangement.

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316 Responses to “Brandon Wade – Arrangements are the Future of Dating”

  1. Christina says:

    I don’t understand Brandon’s quote. If ” Love is a concept invented by poor people” then why is he married?

  2. Ana says:

    Hello everyone,

    I’m new on the blog and also on this site.I didn’t read every comment but I find the topic very interesting and straight to the point.
    I come from Easter Europe but I live in Germany since 10 Years.I have a graduate degree in Business and since 2 years also my own company.I know what hart work are.I mean real work.
    So…I think the (sugar/love/arrangement/*job*)topic will not make so many waves when every woman has his own life, hobbies, friend’s, job(?).
    Ladies, seriously what you see when you look in the mirror? What is the last think you have done by your own ?What you dream when you sleep? What you wanna make later? Men’s came and
    gone.Children grow up.And how about you,Dear? Even if you earn a lot of money with this kind of “arrangements” you must be able to do something whit this amounts,something
    else then shopping.I think the healthy “arrangement way” is a match between two persons hwo can learn from each other,who can admire each other and not only have sex with each
    Other.
    A independent woman is sexier then everything else!:)

    Ladies, to be spoiled as a woman is naturally (same for mens) -but don’t belive an arrangement is a job.That is really not sexy.

    Back to the topic;) -Love happened when two people comunicate on the same line and share almost the same “reality”. And that can happens to everyone (poor or reach).
    But if an Arrangement is a bussines for two persons -then can figurate mostly in a friendship.

    I hope I didn’t obsed someone with my option and I hope there is someone who read this and maybe think about this a lit bit more…

    :)Wish you all a lot of fun

  3. PureSweetness says:

    Brandon’s comment is fine – what is wrong with you all complaining about it…… When no one has ever offered you genuine love and commitment – and apparently I am one deserving sweet heart for this sort of thing….. when you realise this quite a rare thing that only some find in this day and age…. well instead of pining we put on Tina Turner ‘WHATS LOVE GOT TO DO , GOT TO DO WITH IT… WHATS LOVE BUT A SWEET OLD FASHIONED NOTION” Ooooooooooooooo got to do with it!!!!!! Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken…. ok ok just couldnt help going on

  4. PureSweetness says:

    TOO FUNNY!!! I thought sugar babes were different . I thought they weren’t the delusional women who believed a man wanted to marry them and stay devoted and faithful to them for the rest of their lives!! On what fricken planet !! Wake up women! GEEZ men that want to get married are just suspicious already, they want their cake at home and their sugar babe in the hotel earlier….. c’mon women stop relying on men to make you happy it ain’t going to work. Expect someone to stay faithful to you for life! Frankly I think that is quite a selfish attitude and ummmm DELUSIONAL…..

  5. Jacob says:

    @Bill

    I’m afraid you may have it exactly backwards. Sexual relationship driven by lust (aka attraction) alone is almost always short-lived: due to diminishing return after being satiated as well as lack of variation vs. the lure of something new/strange. What has proven over and over again long-lasting between men and women is partnership sharing resources for the sake of children (even if in some cases each partner later on enter a phase where each seek out different sexual partners; the sex partners will cycle but the child-rearing partnership stays). The need to raise children together was the fundamental biological reason behind emotional attachment to begin with, the bio-chemical basis for long-lasting relationship.

    Marriages lasted much longer on average when parents were arranging them based on material prospects. Not that I’d suggest society go back to that just for the sake of marriage longevity, however the experience since the baby boomer generation with idealized lust-driven mating, or lust-driven cock-carousel while young followed by settling near the end of youth, has not exactly proven a winning strategy for long term stable relationships. With the typical boomer parents shirking their responsibilities, the millenials are just taking on the responsibilities of their parents for making arranged relationships for themselves.

  6. @Bill

    What is the reason each party is here?

  7. Bill says:

    It is pretty sad for anyone that really believes ‘Love is a concept invented by poor people.’

    And the future of dating? I would be very apprehensive actually starting any type of real relationship with someone I met on this site, the reason each party is here is hardly a recipe for a long lasting healthy relationship.

  8. DarkHorseSD says:

    Mystic: no one will ever read this, including you, but I’ve dealt with that one that “cried.” She is a real piece of work. If CNN isn’t extremely well paid by SA for that show, its inexplicable.

  9. This is by far my favorite thread! Expansive minds on board this ship. Thanks to everyone who shared, and welcome to all of the new voices :).

  10. Josh says:

    @bookbutterfly

    Interesting post. Thanks for sharing.

  11. bookbutterfly says:

    Love is a concept invented by rich people.
    It was an aristocratic concept for millennia. At its best it takes lots of free time, proper nutrition (and health), luxurious surroundings and refinement of senses, wit, and tastes to appreciate it, arts of all genres to stir the basic instincts and whip them up into dramatic emotions that prolong the sensual experiences. “Love” was all the rage between the Renaissance and the 19th c, but that only connected the “enlightened” human of the time to the illustrious concepts of antiquity (the couple Eros/male> sexual act & Psyche/female>soul). It’s only under the contemporary commoners age that this concept been increasingly degraded and the word “sex” was invented as a euphemism for the crude word, which in some cultures, people use to refer to the most base instincts. Paris is famous worldwide as “the city of love” because it has cultivated, knowingly, this all-seductive concept over hundreds of years. A prostitute lets someone (many) use her body for their bodily urges. A mistress offers complex emotions converted into sexual and sensual acts (love) to her “LOVER”, in exchange for his support in life; in the best cases the man needs only one good mistress. There are old and new books on the theme, but you’re better off searching into the real sources.
    Love is a concept invented once by very rich people. The poor could have “chemistry”, if lucky could marry, reproduce, grow old, die — still poor in both material goods and in spirit.

  12. Jacob says:

    Ling was talking about her former boyfriend/fiance, a producer or something, who lavished European trips etc. on her, not an SD per se. It’s her way of declaring love for her current husband, and perhaps a round about way of telling him to take her and the baby on a family trip to Italy or something. LOL.

  13. Kms2014 says:

    “2. Lisa Ling got the woman to break down in tears a little by trying to get her to feel used and degraded. Perhaps if the woman had met someone nice and respectful at that SA party she wouldn’t have had such doubts about sugar. The program tried to subtly reinforce the idea that women are being humiliated when in reality the women on SA don’t have to agree to anything they don’t like…which is completely empowering. Lisa Ling also decided to draw comparisons between sugar and the men who had tried to use power over Lisa’s career to seduce her. That is an unfair comparison. SDs are not in a position to hire/fire an SB. All we can do is try to find a compatible match.”

    Wait, didn’t Lisa Ling admit to having an SD herself, when she was in her early 30’s…oh Lisa, a tad hypocritical now that she made it ‘big’ in journalism….

  14. Josh says:

    I think Kirsten can just remove chas automagically. Adios… 😉

  15. DorkyGuy says:

    @Chas: Look at how you talk about people who have never done anything to you… And you think YOU have the moral high ground?

    I assure you, this community contains people of a better quality than you think you are.

  16. chas says:

    do all you twats work for his PR company or something trying to pump this un noteworthy site. Who needs Aristotle, Newton, Russell and Einstein when you have Brandon “nobody loves me so I am going to get rich and attract prostitutes” profound indeed

  17. Mystic1 says:

    Thanks to the original post I found and watched the Lisa Ling “This Is Life” episode on SDs/SBs. I liked the parts with Brandon since he is articulate and challenges the status quo ideas about “morality.”

    A few observations I’d like to share about the “tone” of the program:

    1. It seems that they only allowed the non-sexual SD/SB relationship (with the older gentleman who helped a young woman create a sugar advice column) to be portrayed in a positive light. This seems to perpetuate the mainstream’s puritanical belief that sex is bad. We’re supposed to think that a platonic arrangement is inherently “better” than one that includes sexual intimacy…but in reality, sex is a positive, healing force in life that shouldn’t be minimized. If both people want it to be part of their arrangement, how could that be bad?

    2. Lisa Ling got the woman to break down in tears a little by trying to get her to feel used and degraded. Perhaps if the woman had met someone nice and respectful at that SA party she wouldn’t have had such doubts about sugar. The program tried to subtly reinforce the idea that women are being humiliated when in reality the women on SA don’t have to agree to anything they don’t like…which is completely empowering. Lisa Ling also decided to draw comparisons between sugar and the men who had tried to use power over Lisa’s career to seduce her. That is an unfair comparison. SDs are not in a position to hire/fire an SB. All we can do is try to find a compatible match.

    3. Lastly, I thought it was negative to focus on an SD who had a criminal past. Illuminating that bad apple seemed to do what “the news” often does: instill fear. If someone doesn’t want to form an arrangement with someone who has a criminal history, they can stick to those who are background verified…which was an option I chose to help make potential SBs feel more comfortable.

    Just had to share my thoughts. I believe it’ll be rare to see sugar portrayed positively in the mainstream media since it prefers to create drama and conflict even where there is none.

  18. Josh says:

    @SirenSays

    “@josh…I’ve never commented on any of the blogs before – please go easy on me ^_^”

    This is the way to do it. Disagree but be respectful to bloggers you are disagreeing with.

    If you read the history of the blog, many people attacked me in their very first posts and then were conveniently “surprised” when they hear an earful from me.

    It used to happen very often when a specific cast of characters were active…eagerly waiting to pounce…one after the other.

    Grandpa flyR is the only lone ranger still lurking around from that cast of characters. He will kick the bucket soon though. 😉

  19. ys_pls_sir2 says:

    @dazed, thank you…

  20. ys_pls_sir2 says:

    @gentleman, I think that by the second date expectations should be clearly laid on the table, but I personally don’t think a full on allowance needs to have happened by then. Just as I have encountered many men who just ‘disappear’ before any money needs to leave his wallet, I’m sure there are an equal amount of women who disappear after receiving an allowance, so trust must be built, not necessarily assumed. If a woman is genuinely not a ‘rinser’ and a gentleman has genuine respect then I think that aspect takes care of itself.

    I’ve had gentlemen ask if we can work on a per-date basis for the first few dates, which I have agreed to although I don’t like the ‘transactional feel’ about it.

    What are your feelings on it?

  21. dazed SD says:

    @ ys_pls_sir2

    I like how you think. You sound like a class act,, great job !!

  22. DorkyGuy says:

    New blog topic isup

  23. ys_pls_sir2 says:

    @Kms2014, yes there are all kinds of arrangements. I like to have things evolve organically so I’ve never bothered with a rule of how many dates to have before being intimate. I generally don’t have sex on a first date as it’s the fasted way to drop a guy in my experience.

    I’ve grown far too cynical about love to actually ever fall in love deeply, but have enough self respect to want to be romanced before anything else. (FYI, ‘romanced’ does not equal dropping money. Compliments, touches, etc go a long way). A smart man knows that sex is very secondary. If you demand it up front, you may get it, but if you handle a woman’s other needs first, the sex falls into place, and even more intense and explosive than otherwise.

  24. gentleman soul says:

    @ys_pls
    I’m more likely to invite him up for a nightcap if we’ve had a lovely dinner that involved taking our time between courses, sharing our food, good wine, casual touches, flirtation, and conversation that involved actually getting to know me and acknowledging that I have a fully functioning brain, than if you suggest my place as the destination for our second date

    You are making perfect sense. It sounds lovely– like an IRL date . During this romancing period do you expect an allowance ,or do you acknowledge that the two are likely intertwined in the arrangement ?

  25. Kms2014 says:

    You are making sense, but you are wasting time explaining this to the soulman, as it will never make sense to him…he only wants a transactional exchange with professionals…I mean, ‘SB’s’ hehe 😉 he/and others on blog do not ‘get it’ that there are actually others here who wait awhile before sex happens(wait awhile on this blog means after the first hour of meeting! Lol), and prefer to have things progress naturally…whether that be three dates or longer. That is up to their arrangement and their business. There are all kinds of arrangements here and the men who only think ‘their way or opinion, is the only way’ are very mistaken.

  26. SirenSays says:

    @ys-pls
    I’m right there with you, all the way!

  27. ys_pls_sir2 says:

    @gentleman: 1. Yes, that avatar is me (my handle is yes_pls_sir). 2. I suppose I chose my words poorly. You are correct, those are emotions that naturally develop over time and I didn’t articulate my point well. I don’t want to feel that the sex is a transaction. Any woman wants to feel desired by the man they are with, as opposed to a cold transaction they are entitled to because they open their wallets. I’m not so naive as to think it’s not an ‘arrangement’ and that there is a business side to it, but for god’s sake, romance me a little.

    Let me put it this way. I’m more likely to invite him up for a nightcap if we’ve had a lovely dinner that involved taking our time between courses, sharing our food, good wine, casual touches, flirtation, and conversation that involved actually getting to know me and acknowledging that I have a fully functioning brain, than if you suggest my place as the destination for our second date immediately.

    I’m not sure I’m making any sense…

  28. Josh says:

    Re: Sugar = Future of dating?

    In the western context, yes. But it would be really tough on boys.

    In the eastern context, their “relationships” are already socially accepted and practiced sugar.

  29. gentleman soul says:

    @ys_pls

    ” I’ll own my lifestyle without shame or apology. If the definition of this is prostitution, then so be it.”
    Nicely put ! And if your avatar is actually you send me your SA # LOL .

    I understand needing to feel attraction to the SD – I get it ,but —
    –second I need to feel that they respect and adore me in return.

    Respect and adoration are longer term emotions that evolve as you get to know a person . The average SD will expect to have a sexual relationship by –hmmm-let’s say the 3rd date being conservative. It is unlikely a guy will adore anyone after that short a time ,so do you have a long time line dating a Pot until adoration kicks in and the panties hit the floor ? Or do you have a fast trigger in accepting liking each other enough before hopping into the sack ?

  30. SirenSays says:

    @Josh
    “I am not convinced if that is supposedly a bad thing. “Hope” is a “force” that manifests itself in many positives in peoples’ lives. Civilizations run on stories.”
    While I agree with that sentiment, I don’t believe it serves anyone’s best interest to fill generations of children with the false belief that a life is fair and that they will get good things “just because”.
    Perhaps the SB’s you complain of are laboring under this false sense of entitlement at this very moment. This erroneous belief that men will shower them with riches and affections and forgive all thier mistakes and transgressions “just because”. After all, haven’t they been fed the idea that they are princesses to be catered to rather than paupers needing to break their backs for every achievement?

  31. ys_pls_sir2 says:

    I’ve read several times now about the perception of SD/sb relationships vs. prostitution. I struggled with that a great deal after the first time I accepted money, until I realized that that wasn’t the issue at all. The question isn’t if it’s a form of prostitution, rather, why it matters if it is or not.

    Everyone works within their own moral compass. For me, I can’t just have sex with someone for money – not from any moral high ground, but rather it’s just not how I’m wired. I need two things: I need to feel an attraction to them (they don’t have to be Adonis, but a complete package of looks and heart), and second I need to feel that they respect and adore me in return. I react on a very primal level to a man who takes care of me. It makes me feel safe and cared for and in return, I do everything in my power to fulfill their needs. I am not clingy, needy or insecure (quite the opposite) but I feel if you take care of me, I take care of you.

    I’ll own my lifestyle without shame or apology. If the definition of this is prostitution, then so be it. I’ve stopped caring about shaping my conscience to the tune of outside influence.

    Is this the “Future of Dating”? Saying that it is doesn’t archive the traditional means of dating. We create our own experiences. Perhaps it’s more accurate to say that it is evolving into a more acceptable form of dating, not replacing other ones. Remember when online dating was reserved for the dregs of society? Now it’s how most couples meet.

    Anyhow, I’ve not posted on the blogs before, but wanted to throw my two cents in for what they’re worth.

  32. flyR says:

    “However, when a woman living with four apartment mates in a one bedroom dwelling, surviving on Ramen noodles and shared Ford Escort needing urgent repairs, expects Gucci X from her first SD, she is either on a drug-of-the-season or heading for it pretty soon. It ain’t happening anytime soon”

    I guess I have been fishing in a different pond….. Josh may have nailed it with the triad

    living on the edge

    used to buy gucci and stuff

    drugs made the difference

    The fundamental difference is in the application of sugar on the way down and heading down with her or offering a boost on the way up to those who are struggling for reasons outside of their choices.

    There are plenty of intelligent , hardworking part time or full time students, working women, those cut back to part time due to the econoomy and obamacare etc.

    It’s a matter of recruiting from the right pool and picking well. Don’t ever expect more loyalty to your gifts than to their drug habit or lifestyle addiction.

  33. Elaine says:

    @ Josh & Gentleman

    Agree on this, no use denying; everyone has a price.

    “Of course, the offer need to be made in a respectful manner and not in a manner, which insults the SB”

    Here is where the difference is made….

    I would only add: “Or makes her feel treated as an escort”

  34. gentleman soul says:

    @Josh

    There is no SB on SA who will not head for the hotel room if offered $10,000 cash during dinner.

    There is always a price that works for everyone .

  35. Josh says:

    There is no SB on SA who will not head for the hotel room if offered $10,000 cash during dinner. Of course, the offer need to be made in a respectful manner and not in a manner, which insults the SB.

    Let the vehement denial begin. 😉

  36. Josh says:

    @gentleman soul

    “Why should SBs get offended when guys just want a cute girl to have sex with and tell us we need to go get a Pro off Craigs List ? Be thankful SDs are interested and have something to offer you .”

    There are many reasons. One of them is to keep the arrangement price up there, “just because.” 😉

  37. gentleman soul says:

    @Josh

    The most important thing for me is to stop looking at an SD/SB relationship as a variation of prostitution or even an interaction between two consenting adults constantly being evaluated in the context of prostitution.

    I agree Josh . I am one of “those” guys busy in the past trying to fit people into that category ,while participating whole heartedly . What’s the point ? We all need and want something from each other relationship-wise. Sex is usually high on the list as is financial help of some description . Even Married couples after the age of 26 have secondary motives . That 1st love is perhaps the cleanest in terms of “true love” After that other factors enter into it ,such as support, business benefits ,social ,companionship, family .

    So SBs usually want support and SDs sex. Why should SBs get offended when guys just want a cute girl to have sex with and tell us we need to go get a Pro off Craigs List ? Be thankful SDs are interested and have something to offer you .

  38. Josh says:

    @justfromexperience

    “WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER A SD/SB REALTIONSHIP TO BE?

    There are too many variation of an SD/SB “relationship.” Therefore, first of all, to each his/her own.

    The most important thing for me is to stop looking at an SD/SB relationship as a variation of prostitution or even an interaction between two consenting adults constantly being evaluated in the context of prostitution.

    Above is fairly prevalent among some SBs and SDs. For them, if the “relationship” is not handled or evolving in a narrowly defined fashion, it automatically drops into the filthy dunk tank of prostitution.

    Maybe I am a minority in this, but every time anyone uses sugar and prostitution in a single sentence or even within a couple of sentences before or after trying to compare sugar with prostituion, my reflex reaction is “go do something else then.” 😉

  39. Josh says:

    @SirenSays

    “Nowadays our children are bombarded with the idea that everything will end happily, the ‘good guys’ will always win, and no one will be hurt unless they deserve it. Such rosy lies our society invokes in the name of innocence.”

    I am not convinced if that is supposedly a bad thing. “Hope” is a “force” that manifests itself in many positives in peoples’ lives. Civilizations run on stories.

    Here are the questionable elements In the context of romantic relationships:

    1. Man “needs” a woman, and vice versa, “just because.”

    2. Regardless of the state of law and technology, man is a savior for woman, “just because.”

    3. Man must sacrifice his life for a woman, “just because.”

    4. Until the time comes to sacrifice his life for a woman, he should spoil her, “just because.”

    5. No only he should spoil her, he must embrace the commercialization of spoiling just because her “self esteem” is wrapped up in Gucci (or whatever is the brand of the day.)

    Even the questionable elements in 1-4 are still manageable if Gucci, et.al. remained out of the picture.

    To be fair with women who did grow up with Gucci mansion, Gucci car, Gucci butler, Gucci maids, Gucci food, Gucci toilet paper, etc., she does deserve something better than Gucci to be spoiled. Note: She is NOT on SB looking for an SD.

    However, when a woman living with four apartment mates in a one bedroom dwelling, surviving on Ramen noodles and shared Ford Escort needing urgent repairs, expects Gucci X from her first SD, she is either on a drug-of-the-season or heading for it pretty soon. It ain’t happening anytime soon.

  40. SirenSays says:

    @Jacob
    I’m sure you’ve realized that is the basic gist of all Disney movies since the death of the man himself. In the movies HE made darker themes were always presented, e.g. murder in “Bambi”, child abuse in “Dumbo”, and slavery in “Cinderella”. These more closely resembled ‘Fairy Tales’ in that sense. Nowadays our children are bombarded with the idea that everything will end happily, the ‘good guys’ will always win, and no one will be hurt unless they deserve it. Such rosy lies our society invokes in the name of innocence.

  41. Jacob says:

    @Siren
    Agree with the gist of your assessment. That was actually the universal view across cultural lines. Even Victor Hugo, the author who created Quasimodo, essentially told the story as a lesson where Esmeralda should have picked him instead of falling in love with the handsome Phoebus, who pumped and dumped her then left her to die (in the original novel, not the Disney version). Hugo even introduced the parable of wilted flowers in a crystal vase vs fresh beautiful flowers in a pot, but of course the girl picked the wilted flower in the crystal vase. LOL. In Hugo’s original novel, Esmeralda paid for her own mistake with her life, whereas Quasimodo (Latin for “almost standard model”) was the arch type male unidirectional lover who throws his own life away due to his own romantic obsession. Of course, in the Disney version, we are treated to the spectacle of Quasimodo and Phoebus working together battling evil, and Quasimodo getting a younger version of Esmeralda and live happily ever after. Nobody dies. LOL.

  42. flyR says:

    @ Just ” know that I am not the same woman I was a few years ago as far as my looks are concerned but I am very confident that with the right sugar daddy I can flourish and I will not disappoint I clean up very very nice. the reason I do not have the same appearance is due to I moved into Chelsea ny and I use my income for all my expenses in the house hold and I cant afford those luxuries anymore.”

    Hard to know where to start.

    Allowance – my perception is that the high allowances are going away for many if not most. A recent search of two affluent communities with large college populations turned up few moderate or high the vast majority were negotiable or practical. Brandon has driven down the cost of sugar by moving the supply, the current economics also add to the issue. Despite the fairytales out of DC, the bleeding continues.

    It sounds like you previously had a lot of your identity wrapped up in your clothing and grooming. I’m hoping the toll of the past few years does not include meth, crack, coke or similar and that you have simply aged, perhaps not as hard .

    For the armcandy obsessed hedge fund trader you are last year’s Christmas tree. But that’s not at all the end of the world. There’s a large number of attractive women over 30 who are collecting some pretty hefty allowances without the need for elaborate wardrobes. They do it by being authentic, appreciative and aware of the opportunities. They are very much into their partner’s needs and desires.

    Until someone is quite close will they have even a diminished interest in listening to your tales of woe and need. If you have a story of why the sugar is a great investment and will save the world that’s another matter. If my sugar would be the only thing between your present situation and homelessness I’m torn between wanting to help and not wanting to be involved in a potential train wreck.

    If you want to be successful in the sugar world then you are probably best served by targeting your ad, your approach, your appearance and your goals to one segment of the market where you have a reasonable chance of success. Nice is very marketable.

  43. Josh says:

    @SirenSays

    Thank you for your input. 😉

  44. SirenSays says:

    @josh Brandon Wade’s mom comment is totally believable if you take into consideration the fact that his parents are Chinese. The Asian cultures are notorious for emphasizing the importance of financial solvency, wealth and status in regards to romantic and physical relationships. By that stand point he might look like Quasimodo and still make a viable match, so his mother was absolutely right in telling him such a thing.
    Also, I’ve never commented on any of the blogs before – please go easy on me ^_^

  45. sweetie says:

    Josh, I read the part you referred to as “you’d better know what you’re getting into and be ok with it/ you’ve thought about this long and hard and know what it entails/ do not jump in eyes closed and hope for the best” as opposed to make sure you get your money before rolling in the sack with the SD.

  46. Josh says:

    @justfromexperience

    “I think a sugar baby like in any other situation should wait until she is ready to have sex or pretty much youre prostituting.”

    Please allow me to assume that the sugar daddy should wait until he is ready to start the monetary allowance as well, or does that not apply in your scheme of things?

  47. Josh says:

    @justfromexperience

    How old are you sweetheart?

  48. I am embarrassed at my grammatical errors… however I see I am not the only one who has this issue. I am tired and need to go pick up my reading glasses from the optical. Now back to what the subject is about. I propose a question WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER A SD/SB REALTIONSHIP TO BE?

  49. I have been on this site for some time now and I have come to the conclusion that it really does take time to make a connection with a potential sugar companion. The budgets on this site range significantly and I believe its because their are many fakes and many men who are willing to give more to one vs another based on their appearance and experience with this sort of lifestyle. I have chosen to be in the negotiable bracket based on the fact that every man is different and all of them can not afford to provide the same things. I was once in the substantial range and is what I would like to receive from the right daddy, however I do not believe I am up to par with receiving such as of yet. I think a sugar baby like in any other situation should wait until she is ready to have sex or pretty much youre prostituting. I do not believe it would be wise to wait forever though. I am very annoyed with the time wasting losers ive encounters ive had, and those who like to tell me about how they would give their last sugar baby 200 dollars when they would meet and have sex and that she did this and that for him. I am not their last sugar baby and I am most certainly not a hooker. Here is what I am, I am a mother and I am single. I am self employed and work has slowed down so I am a little lonely and could use some extra cash. I have grown tired of being lied to and earning nothing but disappointment, so when I heard of sugar daddy dating I said what a wonderful idea and decided to join in. so for those men who are looking for a hooker they should look on craigslist. I know that I am not the same woman I was a few years ago as far as my looks are concerned but I am very confident that with the right sugar daddy I can flourish and I will not disappoint I clean up very very nice. the reason I do not have the same appearance is due to I moved into Chelsea ny and I use my income for all my expenses in the house hold and I cant afford those luxuries anymore. I am not asking for penthouse on 59 and a rolls Royce I am just asking for a decent allowance and good company and of course amazing sex. is that too much to ask for ???????????????? like really. oh and btw I am also tired of men who want to meet at their hotel room or at my place and don’t even want to have a human conversation.

  50. flyR says:

    Dorky ask kristen to send me your em and I will reply from another account

  51. Jacob says:

    @Kirsten,
    Thank you for asking. I prefer bloggies contact me via the disposable email account that I broadcast here from time to time, not via the email account on file for blog comment authentication. Thanks.

  52. flyR says:

    Dorky – sounds like a pass/fail rating system ……. not ego driven.

    An interesting topic might be the process of getting from Houston we have an agreement to wow that was wonderful ( or woe is me) . What makes it good, great, or an already damaged relationship.

  53. Alexis says:

    “Seems like everyone wants to be in love after a couple of dates these days, SBs included.”

    This is very true, unfortunately. I wish people could keep it more light-hearted.

  54. DorkyGuy says:

    @RSD~ LOL.. standard deviation! I rate girls in binary. Pretty much every girl that will talk to me is a 1. The rest are 0.

    @Kirsten~ If you would like to give my email to anyone, that is fine… though I haven’t seen where either Jacob or Flyr have expressed an interest in an email exchange.

  55. RSD says:

    As for love, it is common both ways. Seems like everyone wants to be in love after a couple of dates these days, SBs included.

    On the topic of 0-10 ratings, mine is not by deciles but by standard deviations, which makes any score above a 7.5 very rare.

  56. flyR says:

    @Darkhorse – atleast if you had Fox doing SA you would have some intelligent , attractive women participating in the discussion rather than someone with Nancy Pelosi’s poise and Michelle’s kindness.

  57. Josh says:

    Well, I don’t want anyone’s email at this time. Maybe later… 😉

    I had suggested that DorkyGuy, flyR and Jacob should have each other’s email address so that they may knock themselves out discussing non-sugar stuff among themselves.

  58. Russian SB says:

    I’ve been impressed with presents 10 years ago, now, I need your soul and contract signed with blood . He-he.

  59. Russian SB says:

    DarkHorseSD – I am heartless bioch. Gucci doesn’t help you in my case :)

  60. Russian SB says:

    Josh right – students cannot be with poor grammar. Iphones, cool outfits, little dogs, too silky long hair – plenty such pictures on the site.
    Drifters – yes. Students – no.

  61. Russian SB says:

    Fatty, at 2000 girls stop to support anybody, it is completely different generation, they hardly can care about themsrlves. Real drifters : nightclubs, alcohol, sex. They want fun, if you not deliver fun, you not in the game.

  62. DarkHorseSD says:

    “But real SD never will blame a fashion industry – because it is key to girl’s heart”

    Where exactly is the Russian girl’s “heart” located?

  63. Jacob says:

    @Josh
    The mother story is actually more believable than it sounds: success and chivalry used to be promoted among young men because the young men had to convince the girls’ parents of his ability and good intentions. That used to be the requirement for getting access to poon. Various parts of the world only came out of that gating system in the past half century or so. Nowadays, what sets the girls’ heart aflutter and get poon consists of whatever puts her in a “good” mood. Drugs and thuggish drama just happen to be the cheap short-cuts; It’s much easier to get a few ounces or tablets or act like a sociopath than making a success out of oneself. Gresham’s Law then goes into action and displaces good currency with cheap-but-“sufficient/acceptable” substitutes.

  64. Josh says:

    @Kirsten

    Any reason why we are honored with a spate of new and random female posters?

  65. DorkyGuy says:

    @DarkHorseSD~ It might also be appropriate to thank bad fathers everywhere

  66. DarkHorseSD says:

    Is there going to be a blog topic on the one hour CNN special investigative report on Seeking Arrangement? I was so glad it wasn’t FoxNews which would have completely distorted the story into something unfairly balanced.

  67. flyR says:

    Carminnia adds some much needed levity and balance

  68. Josh says:

    @DH

    For some reason many people don’t believe Brandon’s “mother story.”

    Is it too cynical not to believe? 😉

  69. DarkHorseSD says:

    Let me be the first to thank Brandon’s mother for this opportunity.

  70. FatB'StardSA says:

    @Russian

    The young women date the stupid boys. The stupid boys have no money, so the young women have to support them by having an arrangement. The FatB’Stard still comes out on top.

  71. Josh says:

    It seems that the definition of “high” school has changed drastically in the last few years…and “collages” are not helping either.

    Most SBs can’t write properly to save their lives. Then they demand high dollars for what…EXACTLY?

    Note: The above is only meant for the bloggers whose primary language is supposed to be English.

  72. Josh says:

    @Carminna

    You must be referring to DorkyGuy and flyR. I don’t discuss “random things.” 😉

  73. Josh says:

    Russian has got it. 😉

  74. Russian SB says:

    You just cast a dirt to the well that give you water, Fatty.

  75. Russian SB says:

    God bless Gucci ! Really, guys if supid girls will lose interests in new phones and fashion, they will date with stupid boys, and not with sugardaddies. We all biotches here, including boys. But real SD never will blame a fashion industry – because it is key to girl’s heart :)

  76. gentleman soul says:

    @ Carminna

    Just sit and smile and give him great sex and never, but never have mood swings like the wife has..or had…

    What a beautifil life in paradise it could be…. we cannot dream of more than that….

    I woke up this AM to this sentiment -I know it was tongue in cheek but still Carminna ,you have hit the nail on the head for all SDs. If we want drama we have wives for that .

  77. Carminna says:

    I see josh…. you preffer to discuss random things with people who call “bitch” to everyone for no reason….

    By all means, knock yourself out…. have fun and a great day.

  78. Josh says:

    What good deeds did we collectively do to deserve Carminna on this thread and carolweb on the previous one?

  79. Carminna says:

    Hey Russian SB, Looks like the FatB’StardSA is in this website looking himself for a rich girl in here to buy him the Gucci new collection….

    Now I understand why men ih here want a girl to pay for her own dinner, and for her to move in with him just out of love and, for her to do nothing productive of her life no more….Just sit and smile and give him great sex and never, but never have mood swings like the wife has..or had…

    What a beautifil life in paradise it could be…. we cannot dream of more than that….

  80. Russian SB says:

    Yeah, baby ! That will attract plenty ov girls to that site :)

  81. FatB'StardSA says:

    @Russian SB

    Let me correct the lyrics for you:

    You wanna me buy you Gucci boots,
    Go to hell bioch !
    You wanna me buy you Gucci belt,
    Go to hell bioch !
    You wanna me buy you Gucci dress,
    Go to hell bioch!
    You like Gucci everything?
    Yeah, buy it yourself bioch

  82. Jacob says:

    @DG

    I wouldn’t want my daughter to react that way. Brushing him off or giving the PUA the “dread” look would be sufficient. What the daughter will have to worry about is her value to the higher value guys, not the idiots trying PU. The last thing I want is turning my daughter into one of the “Social Justice Warriors.” That’s not her fight, and she will have plenty people to fight that fight for her. LOL.

  83. Russian SB says:

    Here again, we start talk about love and finish like that.
    You are so not ramantic, people. Shame on you !

  84. Russian SB says:

    No, DorkyGuy, I will write a song R’n’B :
    You wanna Gucci boots,
    Go to hell bioch !
    You wanna Gucci belt,
    Go to hell bioch !
    You wanna Gucci dress,
    Go to hell bioch
    Etc.
    Etc.

  85. DorkyGuy says:

    @RussianSB~ lol! Your sense of humor is wonderful today

  86. Russian SB says:

    Favorite sentence of the day ( fatty ):
    What, you want Gucci boots – go to hell, bioch !

  87. Russian SB says:

    Todah I learn a new word – shrewish ! Thank you, guys ! Will go now and add in my SA profile …

  88. Russian SB says:

    I like dr.Katz cartoon . And, of course, South Park – it is full of wisdom.

  89. DorkyGuy says:

    @Josh~ LOL, now I know you’re just messing with me to get a reaction. Of course you understood what I meant.

  90. Josh says:

    @DorkyGuy

    “@Jacob~ It’s a cartoon, lol!”

    So are Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, et.al. So?

  91. DorkyGuy says:

    Nah, she wasn’t shrewish. It’s all about context. If a PUA approached my daughters that way, I hope they respond the same way.

  92. Jacob says:

    I know. It’s note-worthy though how often mainstream media outlets have been presenting fire-breathing shrewish female characters as potential role models, as if that’s what would make the women themselves happy. Seems to me, the primary focus of one’s endeavor should be making oneself happy, not making someone else miserable. All too often the audience are somehow expected to applaud the latter.

  93. DorkyGuy says:

    @Jacob~ It’s a cartoon, lol!

  94. Jacob says:

    I agree, negging people is stupid (and a big reason why I do not want to be in long-term live-in relationship with any one woman; as her own value declines with age, negging seems to be all too often a tactic she would use to drag her mate down with her). The cartoon though is making itself as silly as the PUA sites advocating negging women, and the implied message there to women is little more than extending a rope to potential harpies to hang themselves later with cats.

  95. Sierra says:

    The main this SD/SB dateing has improved in my life is ironically this:
    When i was very young i went to a party in a red dress all the men looked at me and check this one walked up and said to me :
    ” you are very gorgeous but i dont think what i could offer you would be enough”
    Seriously !!! and another night another one:
    “You look like an arrogant bitch all beautiful women are rude people”
    Seriously !!!
    The genetically blessed woman has issues also and we all never speak about this and its actually awful when you are a normal nice and friendly person.
    SB/SD really has removed this negativity from my life and i have met men who share my values of being positive looking for the best in others and living
    to be the best person you can be.So a big thanks to Brandon from me.

  96. Jacob says:

    “its a whole mind set of being a positive person who wants life to be good and to share happiness with others.”

    That, and “first do no harm.” Well, unless harm is intended action in some other context. LOL.

  97. DorkyGuy says:

    “The PUA scenario described above is itself is rather thought provoking: if the typical women with a body 8 and SE3 pays the younger versions of RSD no attention but puts out for the PUA negging her . . . is the PUA more vomit-inducing or the women’s own behavior more vomit-inducing? “~Jacob

    Great question. ummm… both, I think. Younger RDS probably dodged a bullet.

  98. Jacob says:

    @DH
    LOL. “One of the top 3 engineering schools in the country.” Beavers.

  99. Jacob says:

    “I wondered why a successful 40 something would use terminology that 20 something that PUAs do”

    Because PUA stole an acronym from the modelling industry and made it to mean something else (a singular parameter for body instead of a parameter for face among numerous other parameters that relate modelling requirement). Now PUA sites generate much more hits and links than modelling agencies do, so a google search is showing up the PUA.

  100. Sierra says:

    One of the great insights by Brandon is that its the personal qualities that make us successful actually do matter its about a lot more than making money or being able to provide its a whole mind set of being a positive person who wants life to be good and to share happiness with others :)

  101. DarkHorseSD says:

    Brandon and I both went to MIT which uses a 5 grading system instead of the 4 used by wanna-be prestigious other .edus

    If the 4 to 5 women I bed each semester don’t average to 11.75 I’m quite disappointed.

  102. DorkyGuy says:

    @KMS~ Wait… there are PUA sites that aren’t woman-hating? That is actually news to me. If some are just focusing on helping men present themselves better, and be more comfortable and confident, there are probably a lot of guys that could really use that.

    On a humorous note, I love this:

    [img]http://xkcd.com/1027/[/img]

  103. Kms2014 says:

    I was referencing that ‘HB’ that jakeysnakeyshine used earlier…I meant the HB12345678910 scale, or whatever empirically vacuous scale he was speaking of. It is all over PUA sites…that is why I wondered why a successful 40 something would use terminology that 20 something that PUAs do…hehe 😉

    Well, PUAs…I can understand the sweet but nerdy guy that wants to improve his self esteem and how he approaches women. There are actually some PUAs sites that are promoting how to carry yourself and present yourself for better results with women. Some of the other ones hate women because they always get(or, used to get rejected, so they try and ‘get women back’, so to speak…and think they are empowering themselves by that ‘game’, but in all honesty, they are actually giving women more power in that they are basing their success or ‘gaming’ capabilities…and their self-esteem is being based on that, in my opinion, which gives the women even more power. Sorry, did some research on this back in college for an elective course…

    Carminna…don’t let the sometimes certain hostile fellas discourage you from posting questions relevant to the site, or especially, relevant to the above article….there are enough who are nice enough on here to try and answer questions…

  104. Jacob says:

    I’m sure PUA use height, weight and cup sizes too. Are these also exclusively PUA terminologies now? The 1-10 scale is used almost universally in western societies; besides, despite the identical acronym, the emphasis of “Hot Babe” index is not on the body like the PUA “Hot Body” but on the face, because the body is numerically described in the other parameters that the applicants/candidates usually fill out on the forms themselves, such as: height, weight, the 3 measurements, dress size, shoe size, etc..

    The PUA scenario described above is itself is rather thought provoking: if the typical women with a body 8 and SE3 pays the younger versions of RSD no attention but puts out for the PUA negging her . . . is the PUA more vomit-inducing or the women’s own behavior more vomit-inducing?

    As for my own personal behavior/choice, a woman like that would not be someone I’d be interested in touching, much less seducing. I had a 9 in my bed a while back falling into tonic trance because of something I did and accidentally triggered about her, her repeated failure to recite the safe word led me to immediately release her instead of taking advantage of her. She was a little peeved afterwards at my stopping, but the 2nd space alien in the orbital station watching over the 1st space alien sex fiend on the bed simply wouldn’t allow the latter do anything that might endanger our rover unit with the local police despite all the interesting mechanical quirks of earthling female machinery discovered. The mining operation had to be suspended, much to the earthling’s and the rover-plougher’s regret. LOL.

  105. Amanda25 says:

    Thanks Russian SB! I checked and it’s a different guy. :-)

  106. DorkyGuy says:

    @KMS~ I figured 1-10 was used by PUA… that didn’t bother me. Everybody uses the 1-10 scale for attractiveness. What I found upsetting was that PUA rates self esteem as well, and then uses that tactically. It seems like self esteem is one of those things you shouldn’t be leveraging to manipulate someone into sex. That of course presumes a moral compass.

    @DarkHorseSD

    My youth was ruined by my mother warning me against the very girls Brandon’s mother promised to him should he ever make good.

    LOL!!!

  107. DarkHorseSD says:

    My youth was ruined by my mother warning me against the very girls Brandon’s mother promised to him should he ever make good.

  108. Russian SB says:

    In adress bar – on the very top of your page.

  109. Amanda25 says:

    Hello everyone,

    Can someone tell me how to see a SD’s profile number?
    I’m new to SA and I’ve been reading the blogs for advice. I noticed a warning against a SD called “Captain.” One has contacted me and I wanted to check it out.
    Thank you, and keep the real life advice coming!

  110. Kms2014 says:

    “DorkyGuy says:
    September 28, 2014 at 1:08 pm
    ugh… never mind, I looked it up. HB is a PUA thing, and kind of gross. They’ll rate girls on the HB (Hot Body) scale, and then on the SE (Self Esteem) scale. So, if you can find a HB8, SE3, maybe some negging will get you into her pants.

    I need to vomit.”

    I posted that earlier…guess you did not believe me 😉

  111. Alexis says:

    “How about some reall comments about how people actually behave on dates…”

    I tried that. It got censored lol.

  112. Alexis says:

    “Dorky is a naïve doo doo head, and humanity is stoopid. Get rid of schools because they just pass on fear and ignorance.”

    That’s actually a great idea, but it would be insufficient. Humanity needs to do a hell of a lot more to reverse engineer the social engineering that’s been done to us in the past several decades.

    All in good time.

    “Yes we are that mature in Europe!”

    Must be nice.

    So much “rating” of people. I’ve never rated anyone. I use more of a black and white scale, yes or no. Rating people seems degrading to me, JM2C.

  113. Carminna says:

    FatB’StardSA says:
    September 28, 2014 at 6:10 am

    @Carminna

    “they cannot even afford a pair of Gucci’s or a house rent of $3000…”

    “come live with me and I support you an feed you and you should be already very happy with that……”

    You sound like a bitch. You will be lucky to find someone who is willing to support and feed you.

    Seriouslly…..and then you dont want me to whine….Oh my God, this person has what?? 14 or 15 years old…. does he (she) know what website is this???

    And Josh… I dont use this website as a relief for my personal life because, I am not like the average here that apparently dont even have a job… I work, and do my life, I do not have time to be chating here… I do my comments accordingly to the purpose of the original theme and not about random daily things that I might think or not…

    We only see the same old same people posting and say nothing….How about some reall comments about how people actually behave on dates like the russian SB did and some other girls but without all of you coming criticizing and accusing of doing something wrong….

    And then, remember…I am not located in the US, so screening is not exactly the same thing as people tend to behave differently from culture to culture..

  114. DarkHorseSD says:

    “What kepteth you away from this (accroding to some) stupid+silly blog?”

    I was busy juggling a schizophrenic and a bipolar to see to which I was best suited, but shelling out 3X allowance ran my funds down.

  115. Russian SB says:

    DarkHorseSD – and you are absolutely right !

  116. DorkyGuy says:

    Wow, here is a profile…

    She calls herself the “Mistress of Misanthropy”. Then she describes herself as “incredibly loyal and enjoy taking care of others”.

    It sounds like split personalities, only one of which would be allowed near Lil’ Dorky.

  117. DarkHorseSD says:

    Josh, the Russian man is required to contain the Russian woman. I’m sure “Jacob” could opine in greater sociological detail on this, but to me it’s like when you put the wrong animal from far away into the wildlife sanctuary and all of a sudden three quarters of the species are eliminated.

  118. Russian SB says:

    And, it was : ” you love money too much, dear ”
    My mistake.

  119. Russian SB says:

    It is what I told, at allowance negotiation, that I am priceless :)

  120. DorkyGuy says:

    @Josh~ lol! I think the right question is: “How many HB points does a Russian man gain if the woman drinks vodka?”

    @RussianSB~ LOL!! “You love money so much dear”. I actually laughed at that. It is priceless.

  121. Russian SB says:

    Josh, if man don’t drink vodka – he is not Russian man !

  122. Russian SB says:

    Dear DorkyGuy, women looking for HB=10 boys (absolutely the same as men do!), it is just something wrong with me…
    One my Russian SD , looking in the mirror in the morning, used to say: ” you love money so much, dear ” :)

  123. Josh says:

    Rhetorical question:

    How many HB points does a Russian man gain if he did not drink vodka or at least drank it in moderation?

  124. DarkHorseSD says:

    Well Russian, you can be dating the hottest American 10 there is, and generously giving her $150 each time you meet her for several hours. But you’ve got $175, maybe $185 to throw at your SB. Where do you go from there? Well, you go to Eastern Europe with that, heck $165 in Ukraine, and you get an 11.

  125. Josh says:

    Welcome back DarkHorseSD.

    What kepteth you away from this (accroding to some) stupid+silly blog?

  126. DorkyGuy says:

    “And man should be HB=2, smart, fun, clean shaven, very rich.”

    @RussianSB, how prevalent is that attitude in Russia? Is it a cultural thing?

    I know this Russian couple.. You could say the guy is “butt ugly”, but that does a disservice to butts. His wife is at least a 9. He is not wealthy, and they live modestly. There has been tons of speculation on how they ended up together, but nobody can figure it out.

    He does play the Spanish guitar, which probably adds 4 HB points. But I am curious if the man’s physical appearance just isn’t as important to Russian women.

  127. Russian SB says:

    DarkHorseSD,
    I like that, mmmmmm…. continue

  128. DarkHorseSD says:

    I’m a few hours behind, but I think the real confusion is that girls In Eastern Europe go to 11.

  129. Jacob says:

    Is it? Is that what scientologists believe? No wonder they are megastars. Did L Ron land on this planet before I came?

  130. Russian SB says:

    I knew it, Jacob ! Nothing excape my attention !

  131. DorkyGuy says:

    @Jacob~ Aha! A scientologist! 😛

  132. Russian SB says:

    Catch me if you can, fatty !

  133. Jacob says:

    @Russian
    Yes-and-No. LOL
    I think I’m a space alien with another space alien as overseer: the 2nd more robotic so as to watch over the first to make sure he is safe, so the 1st can indulge in all sorts of psychodrama that human females can throw at him.

  134. FatB'StardSA says:

    @RussianSB

    “Usually HB=3 and SE=8, so, live the hope guys.
    And if HB=8 , SE will be 50, yes, I know 10 points scale only.
    Life is no fair …:)”

    “And man should be HB=2, smart, fun, clean shaven, very rich.”

    I am surprised a woman is allowed to admit this without being killed by other women.

  135. Russian SB says:

    Mr.Wade, when you are planning a Moscow Sugar party ?

  136. Russian SB says:

    I think we need a guy with hot hands for our advertisment …

  137. Russian SB says:

    No, DorkyGuy, Hot Babe (HB) will be the same, as with girls !
    My type is men with HB2 (hate beautiful guys).
    And your goal – to make a good commercial, that I wish to wash my SD in dish soap, and not in Gilchrist&Soames products (the way I prefer to wash them).

  138. Josh says:

    I wonder if soap-on-the-dope works better than soap-on-the-rope.

  139. Russian SB says:

    Jacob, are you robot ? Or artificial intelligence ? Confess to us.
    Just “yes” or “no”, please :)

  140. DorkyGuy says:

    @Russian~ You gals need a scale to rate guys on Hygiene (HG) and Wealth (HW)! Then, SA could add the rating to SD’s profiles, so that you could see it. If a SD is (HG2 HW9), then at least the SB knows to bring a bar of soap on the date.

    I think YGBKM has some soap on a rope for the cause.

    @Josh~ Of course PUA works. I don’t think the fact that it works is being disputed. I was addressing its HN (hot nausea) scale. PUA is HN8.

  141. Jacob says:

    The simple numerical rating is for talent discovery/recruitment and pre-qualification, assessing her potential appeal to the general male (and female) audience. It does not apply to known celebrities that already have their own fan base. If someone were to hire Sasha Grey for product promotion, they’d be paying for her immediate appeal to her fan base, not just the look itself.

  142. Josh says:

    She was a porn star so I guess she must’ve been up there in the HB scale. 😉

  143. Russian SB says:

    And man should be HB=2, smart, fun, clean shaven, very rich. That is my type.

  144. Josh says:

    The topic of PUA has been brought up here by a couple of bloggers.

    Based on my observations of women’s propensity of picking up projects, the PUAs must have been fairly rewarded as potential projects. Why else would they be engaging in PUA activities if they did not work.

  145. Russian SB says:

    Sasha is solid 10 and out of reach !

  146. Russian SB says:

    Usually HB=3 and SE=8, so, live the hope guys.
    And if HB=8 , SE will be 50, yes, I know 10 points scale only.
    Life is no fair …:)

  147. Josh says:

    @Russian: Just looked up Sasha Grey. What’s so special about her?

    @Jacob: Where would you put Sasha Grey on your HB scale?

  148. Josh says:

    @DorkyGuy

    “ugh… never mind, I looked it up. HB is a PUA thing, and kind of gross. They’ll rate girls on the HB (Hot Body) scale, and then on the SE (Self Esteem) scale. So, if you can find a HB8, SE3, maybe some negging will get you into her pants.

    I need to vomit.”

    I never called you dumb. It was FB who alluded that I called you such.

  149. Jacob says:

    @DG
    HB: Hot Babe; the overall “hotness” of the subject, the emphasis is usually on face because there are other parameters for other parts of the body. It’s just another parameter in addition to height, weight, the usual 3 measurements, dress size and shoe size. When dealing with dozens of candidates, not for personal intimacy but for promotion of products or events, the numbers speed up the culling and coordination, help making the process go smoothly.

  150. DorkyGuy says:

    @Russian SB~ lol, good point! I guess I just figured attractive hands were important in product advertisements. Or it might be a kink of mine. Could be?

  151. DorkyGuy says:

    ugh… never mind, I looked it up. HB is a PUA thing, and kind of gross. They’ll rate girls on the HB (Hot Body) scale, and then on the SE (Self Esteem) scale. So, if you can find a HB8, SE3, maybe some negging will get you into her pants.

    I need to vomit.

  152. Russian SB says:

    DorkyGuy, you selling dish soup to women. Why you need hot hands ?
    Maybe it is personal :)

  153. Russian SB says:

    Watching now opera “Don Pasquale ” with Anna Netrebko, Met.
    Suddently realise , that every second opera plot is about old fool !

  154. DorkyGuy says:

    And please provide a picture of you in the asbestos coveralls.

    @Jacob, what is the significance of the HB prefix? Are there different prefixes for different attributes?

    Is this something used generally in the modelling industry, or something of your own creation?

    For example, if I were looking for an actress for a dish soap commercial, could I approach an agency and specify I want someone who has a HF (hot face) no greater than 7, a HB of at least 5, and HH (hot hands) of 9?

  155. flyR says:

    Vanasa – Yes post the profile number, put on your asbestos coveralls and have a stiff drink. You’ll get a lot of comments , many of great value, uncomfortable, arrogant, etc but in totality priceless. You’ll need to sort out the good from the bad.

  156. flyR says:

    Of course most everyone has heard of the perfect 10 but HB ?

    10 speaks for itself

    In the contest between statistical improbability and the heart of the beholder the heart wins with those who look inward and peer pressure rules the brain of those who are looking for purchased affirmation.

    When I was far younger you would see the Hollywoodwannabees strutting their pneumatic, gum chewing blonds through the restaurant wanting to be sure that everyone saw the body they were with.

  157. Jacob says:

    “Am I the only person (other than Jacob) that has heard of the 1-10 scale for attractiveness used in common language for years?”

    “I guess most everyone knows 1-10 scale.”

    Of course (almost) everyone knows what the numbers mean; those numbers are used by grown adults almost everywhere in the western world, especially where modeling/talents/promotions are involved; sex sells in the marketing business.

    What we witnessed earlier from some posters was an example of gas-lighting: a shit test designed to induce you to apologize and put them back on the pedestal for worshiping.

  158. DorkyGuy says:

    Sure Vanas, but simple things first… If you send messages to non-premium SDs, they can’t read or reply to your messages. Maybe that is the problem?

  159. Vanas says:

    If I post my ID number here, can someone please critique my profile and let me know why I am getting only about 2 messages a week? And hardly anyone ever responds when I message them (I make personalized messages instead of the same one to each person).

    I think it might be my location, though. Maybe I should move to Florida or California…

  160. Jacob says:

    BTW, the full paragraph even explained the inherent contradiction in “10” or “HB10” as a statistical impossibility, but a mental construct for physically perfect woman . . . i.e. similar of “heaven”/”paradise” that is inherently different for different people but can garner the same emotional response from almost all listeners when invoked by the speaker.

  161. Jacob says:

    “It is not such big deal an sich, but I am just wondering what kind of men are using these rates, even in films?”

    Men and women who want concise communication. In my earlier post, an entire paragraph of several hundred letters were used to fully expand on what the four alpha-numericals meant. I’m not sure why someone would choose to cut out that entire paragraph in reply and pick bones with the leading sentence alone.

  162. DorkyGuy says:

    @Elaine, check out the movie “10” with Bo Derek and Dudley Moore. The movie is titled for this rating scale that Dudley Moore (an affluent songwriter) uses.

    I can’t list them off the top of my head, but I have seen it tons of times in film, often by girls. Girls will use it to rate men, themselves, or each other. It’s not in the shadows. I can’t remember the movie title, but I remember a scene where a girl is anxious about a date, and to inspire confidence, her girlfriends tell her “Go get him, you’re an 8!”.

    Side note… “10” is worth watching just for the love scene, featuring Ravel’s Bolero as the background track. I will never hear that song the same way again.

  163. Jacob says:

    @FB

    “Is the 10x the national average in child support a cash payment or does it include gifts (such as cars, etc.)? Do you have a trust fund set up for the child support? How does the SB know that you will be able to provide this support? Does she do a financial audit or are you so loaded that there is no doubt in anyone’s mind that you can provide what you say?”

    Very good questions. There will be a year’s time or more to get to know each other before giving her a child. The security of support will be guaranteed through two mechanisms that are much more forceful than audit or reputation alone:

    1. Court-sanctioned child support;

    2. “Feudalization”: the mother of the child will directly control an easy to run sub-section of the business “kingdom,” pocketing the revenue from it while paying a fealty upward to her suzerain in exchange for services that involve greater economy of scale. In other words, she will be made a Princess/Prince with her own domain, in the original feudalistic sense, not just dressing up pretty.

  164. Elaine says:

    @ Dorkyguy

    It is not such big deal an sich, but I am just wondering what kind of men are using these rates, even in films?

    For me it is something nerdy teenagers are saying, in high school movies or comedies.
    Not people who state to be adult succesful multimillionaires.

  165. Josh says:

    I guess most everyone knows 1-10 scale. But the prefix?

  166. DorkyGuy says:

    Am I the only person (other than Jacob) that has heard of the 1-10 scale for attractiveness used in common language for years? It’s been in multiple movies that I know all of us must have seen. The only new thing is the “HB” prefix. I don’t understand the big deal.

  167. Elaine says:

    Josh says:
    September 28, 2014 at 11:22 am

    @Elaine, could you believe I had never heard of HB10 until I read it on the blog from none other than Sir Jacob

    Well that only speaks for you Josh! 😉

  168. Josh says:

    @FatB’StardSA

    “@Jacob

    Is the 10x the national average in child support a cash payment or does it include gifts (such as cars, etc.)? Do you have a trust fund set up for the child support? How does the SB know that you will be able to provide this support? Does she do a financial audit or are you so loaded that there is no doubt in anyone’s mind that you can provide what you say?”

    Most of us know the answers but since you were missing in action for a good while, you should exchange email address with almighty Sir Jacob so he can fill you in. Otherwise, we will have to hear all that once again. But if you must hear all that on the blog then so be it. ***Sigh***

  169. DorkyGuy says:

    I don’t discuss Voltaire with anyone who drinks Grey Poupon. Sorry!

    LOL, witty reply… made me laugh… Well played.

  170. Josh says:

    @DorkyGuy

    “@Josh, we should totally sit down over a jar of Grey Poupon and discuss the works of Voltaire, which I will gladly pretend to read for the sake of our guy date!”

    I don’t discuss Voltaire with anyone who drinks Grey Poupon. Sorry!

  171. Josh says:

    @Elaine, could you believe I had never heard of HB10 until I read it on the blog from none other than Sir Jacob.

  172. Josh says:

    I find it interesting that people keep calling this blog “silly”, “stupid”, etc., but at the same time keep coming back to it and either try to control what is discussed or at least demand their right to post whatever silliness or stupidity they have in their minds.

    Hmmm… 😉

  173. Elaine says:

    @FB

    “Don’t you think your SD would be upset knowing you waste time on this blog?”

    Well, I doubt if he even knows about the existence of this blog, he is too busy to be interested in such. And since we are in an NSA mutual beneficial “arrangement”, why should he bother about what I am doing when not with him?

    “Could you ask him about the HB raking system and then tell us what he said?”

    Well I also doubt he has ever heard about that rating system, over here women are just called “attractive” or “beautiful”, instead of HB8.
    But if you want to, I can always ask my teenage son instead?

  174. DorkyGuy says:

    @Josh, we should totally sit down over a jar of Grey Poupon and discuss the works of Voltaire, which I will gladly pretend to read for the sake of our guy date!

    @FB~ My closet is a walk-in. It has to be roomy in order to lure a fat bastard in there 😉

  175. FatB'StardSA says:

    @Josh

    That was my take on it. I guess I was wrong. It’s not nice to call someone dumb by the way. The blog should be a friendly place where people can post about their experiences without being attacked.

  176. FatB'StardSA says:

    @Elaine

    Why do you need to fly to meet your SD? You can click your heels together three times and transport yourself to him.

    I am just kidding of course :-). I really love this blog.

  177. Josh says:

    @FatB’StardSA

    Did I call DorkyGuy “dumb”?

  178. Josh says:

    “I have to say fair is fair. DorkeyGuy, Jacob and FlyR should be allowed to annoy Josh as much as they like.”

    Of all people, FB takes the bait. Tsk tsk. 😉

  179. FatB'StardSA says:

    @Josh

    I never pretended to be well read or sophisticated…

    I don’t know anyone from the blog but I don’t think I would consider DorkeyGuy dumb. He is in the closet, but not dumb. :-).

  180. FatB'StardSA says:

    I have to say fair is fair. DorkeyGuy, Jacob and FlyR should be allowed to annoy Josh as much as they like. I for one would like to read more about Jacobs plans.

    @Jacob

    Is the 10x the national average in child support a cash payment or does it include gifts (such as cars, etc.)? Do you have a trust fund set up for the child support? How does the SB know that you will be able to provide this support? Does she do a financial audit or are you so loaded that there is no doubt in anyone’s mind that you can provide what you say?

  181. Elaine says:

    @Flyr

    Thanks for that 😉

    But I have given up justifying or proving myself, or my SDs, to be real.
    I am seeing how riculous it looks when people are constantly answering and posting the same, over and over again trying to convince people they don’t even know, on a silly blog.

    It is never to late to learn…
    Wasn’t it a sign of true intelligence to learn from someone elses faults? 😉

  182. Josh says:

    Dumb people pretending to be well-read and sophisticated annoys me even more.

  183. Josh says:

    Jacob does not annoy me. Dumb people do. 😉

    Jacob posts good stuff but gets uncontrollably furious when Kms2014 responds to him. Kms2014 does not refrain from responding to him and it goes down hill from there. :(

  184. FatB'StardSA says:

    @Elaine

    Don’t you think your SD would be upset knowing you waste time on this blog?

    Could you ask him about the HB raking system and then tell us what he said?

  185. DorkyGuy says:

    Wait… So people on the blog are annoying Josh, instead of it being the other way around? WOW. We are getting under Josh’s skin.

    Maybe we should cancel the email exchange.

  186. flyR says:

    @Elaine – Have fun with your SD – For others, yes she and sd are very real.

  187. Josh says:

    @Kirsten

    Please give Jacob, DorkyGuy and 80-something flyR’s email addresses to each other.

    Thanks

  188. flyR says:

    Another cultural tidbit – For several hundred years the term “Drummed out of the Corps” had real meaning. If you betrayed your fellow Marines your dishonorable discharge included being marched out the gate , between long columns of your peers turned with their backs to you. It was a strong statement of the cultural integrity of the organization. Someone lingering in the White House decided it was mean spirited.

    Our society used to do that with those who did really bad things. But now we accept felons from billionaires to ghetto gangs back into society, forgetting why they were sent away.

  189. flyR says:

    Fat B asks “Very interesting! Why don’t you tell me what happens when a gunny sergeant ignores a direct order from a superior officer (who might be 15 years younger) with no experience.”

    Very legitimate question. But some background first. Young second Lt’s are taught to listen to the senior em. Assuming they listen and order something stupid then the NCO is probably going to follow orders and some lives may be lost. The officer represents the interest of the mission while the gunny represents the interest of the men in completing the mission at the least cost. To refuse a direct, lawful order can bring everything from reprimand to dishonorable discharge to time in the brig.

    Military law cuts some slack while adding almost unfathomable responsibilities to the subordinates. One of the classic cases involved a group of destroyers which ran aground on the cA central coast at high speed, ordered by the flotilla commander. The court martial held that that the order was so dangerous that the other skippers should have refused.

    The real source of stupidity is generally further removed from reality. Thankfully we learned a lot from the Vietnam war, although our leaders are forgetting it as quickly as possible.

    As a bit of trivia the USMC ground war doctrine which was so successful in Iraq came from a brilliant but eccentric Air Force officer John Boyd who was the godfather of the F-16, developed what’s known as the OODA loop. Shunned by the AF due to his outspoken views he was adopted by the Marines. He died poor having spent most of his military pay on research, passing up offers of millions from defense contractors.

  190. Jacob says:

    @KMS

    Interesting you brought up the term “games.” I was not consciously aware of the term “games” until I was in the process of losing my long-term ex-SB/GF last year after she got pregnant from her project, as her friends from the lower income social strata were commenting on my lack of “games.” Well, I thought I was playing things down and avoiding conflict because with her pregnancy from uncertain paternity, I had a significant chance of being blackmailed, so there was a logical reason to keep things amicable in order to avoid being blackmailed. Even the $1200 pre-natal DNA test only delivered 90% certainty, meaning leaving me with still 10% chance of a false negative and potentially having my biological child held as hostage against me if her project convinces her to do that. Looking back, I probably could have kicked her out sooner to save her life, instead of treating her kindly while giving her the correct advice but effectively letting her situation linger to a point where there could be no good outcome for her. My own internal plan however was always quite consistent all along even without knowing what “game” was: if she woke up and was willing to abort early, I was willing to help her along and get her life back on track; beyond a certain point, a late abortion would make her too emotionally broken to be worth taking back.

    I suspect the term “games” is a vernacularized version (for the less educated crowd) of “-gamy” in standard behavioral science literature. There is nothing particularly wrong with the study of human/animal behavioral science, including those pertaining to reproductive strategies. Many reproductive strategies are instinctive, even if severely diluted among the well educated crowd nowadays thanks to decades of 2nd/3rd wave feminist brain washing. I was quite brainwashed myself through the college and grad school years by the feminist imperative, and consequently not entirely being myself for quite a long time, despite correct instincts on the most important issues.

    There is no life free of “-gamy”: reproductive strategies take place so long as sex and reproduction are taking place. Men can either insist on their own preferred -gamy model and let women into their lives accordingly, or they can let women control their lives and make everyone’s life miserable by default.

  191. Josh says:

    @FatB’StardSA

    “@FlyR

    Very interesting! Why don’t you tell me what happens when a gunny sergeant ignores a direct order from a superior officer (who might be 15 years younger) with no experience.”

    Dont worry about FB’s question. Go back to Wikipedia for the answer.

  192. Elaine says:

    @FB

    Wel most probably he is at home, sitting with a drink next to his wife and family.
    It is sunday you know….

    And I am alone at home, packing my suitcase to go meet him.
    Need any more info?

  193. DorkyGuy says:

    @Josh~ 80-something… pfffft. I am 94. Mr. Softy has to be ironed before he can be pleasured.

    @Flyr~ That is such a terrific story. What you describe should be part of basic high school education. I think there is a brilliance to the Israeli model of mandatory military service for two years.

    @FB~ There might be genes identified that drive instinct, but I am too lazy to research it! I’d rather concede the point, lol!

  194. FatB'StardSA says:

    @FlyR

    Very interesting! Why don’t you tell me what happens when a gunny sergeant ignores a direct order from a superior officer (who might be 15 years younger) with no experience.

  195. FatB'StardSA says:

    @Elaine

    Why not ask your super successful SD right now. He is probably sitting next to you having a drink with all of your other imaginary friends.

  196. FatB'StardSA says:

    I do realize that some of the blog SD’s here are a cut above and they might already be nobel prize winning scientists. Flyr himself combines the wisdom of Solomon with the marketing ability of a Jobs and the writing ability of a Twain.

    Based on some of his stories I suspect he may have actually met Twain. This is coming from someone who is pretty old as well :-).

  197. Josh says:

    It’s Kms2014’s fault. :(

  198. Josh says:

    @Elaine,

    You have a new 80-something fan. He just puts your words in quotes and moves his head in ecstasy.

  199. flyR says:

    “”There is a general trend in the society of displacing traditional middle class value with lower-class value system””

    If you describe “lower-class” as lower ethical values yes. Sadly most of the destructive pressure comes from wealthy folks, especially those in the media.

    Our company has sponsored several events which send 35-50 MBA candidates out to spend a weekend at a Marine NCO academy in the desert. Most everyone on the bus expects to be a millionaire in no more than 5-10 years. Winding through LA traffic to the desert it’s all fun and games until the bus comes to a halt.

    In a flash three instructors from the school are on the bus and in their face. For the next 30 hours they work as small groups learning about leadership, teamwork and personal responsibility from guys who never went beyond high school. Much to their surprise the instructors are well read and understand far more about leadership than most of their professors. They learn about the reality of life and death decisions in the simulators, about supporting their team in some pretty grueling courses but most of all learn about values and leadership.

    For those unfamiliar with the organization, the Marine Corps gunny sergeant (equivalent to the middle manager in most businesses) is one of the most respected positions in the organization. Majors, Col’s and generals listen.

    It’s also the reason many are so determined to keep military recruiters off the college campuses

    My point is that there are cultural reservoirs of ethics and duty but they have been erased from the popular culture.

  200. FatB'StardSA says:

    @DorkeyGuy

    “Most instincts are a phenotype that have a likely genetic basis, even if we have not identified the genes in question.”

    Until the genes have been identified the likelihood is unknown. You guys scan speculate whatever you wish though :-). Anyone who could prove what you guys are posting about would easily win a nobel prize in biology or medicine. If Jacob can pull that off he will certainly be able to claim he needs to spread his genes far and wide.

  201. Kms2014 says:

    It’s not you, dorky guy…we have just heard jacobshinyhiney’s plans for so long…and, am sorry I was one of the people to summon him out of his slumber the other day. My bad.

  202. DorkyGuy says:

    @Flyr~ True! I would respond that the “will” of humanity is manifest twice there, with two separate decisions. Collectively, we have decided that the instinct needs to be repressed, and so we (as a society) have establish the system of justice. Individually, we then have an option to submit or not, which is a personal decision. I think either of those decisions supports my point, but I understand it is more nuanced and there are exceptions.

    I completely agree with your point regarding belief in the system. That brings up another example… money! Could expand on that, but I know that I am already boring and annoying people.

    @kms~ LOL@ RA10. I am probably at least RA8, and it isn’t where I wan to be. I will try to tone it down, because it isn’t considerate to everyone else.

    Regarding PUA… the whole thing strikes me as creepy. Head games and manipulation are just gross. Ok, I can see how “peacocking” might work, but when they talk about “negging”, that is a horrible thing to do. Clearly, many of them put no value on women at all.

    “Would you please give them each other’s email address.

    I mean, pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaazzzzzeeee!!!!!” ~ Josh

    @Josh: LOL~ Totally agree. It’s gone way too deep for a blog that others are trying to use.

  203. Jacob says:

    @flyer

    “Sadly our popular culture deliberately shuns the concepts of duty and sacrifice. It’s all about optics rather than substance.”

    There is a general trend in the society of displacing traditional middle class value with lower-class value system. It is the inevitable consequence of society being taken over by female reproductive imperatives under the guise of 2nd/3rd wave feminism. Duty and sacrifice are values of the old patriarchy, and they can only be maintained when individual males following those rules are richly rewarded by the system, not just in the monetary sense but also in the genetic sense. Otherwise, the society degenerate into the sexual-selective result that the female imperative produces because their selective criteria have not changed much since the jungle days.

  204. Josh says:

    @Elaine

    Sir Jacob is mighty hands-on. That’s why he keeps “female” secretaries and makes sure that he only talks to the “female secretary” about the HB stuff. 😉

  205. flyR says:

    @Elaine

    “Yes we are that mature in Europe! Or should I say, some men in US are that imm…….
    Nah…., that would be nasty!”

  206. Josh says:

    @Kirsten,

    “@DorkyGuy

    Jacob, I am having an enjoyable conversation, and even learning a few things.

    If you would like to take this off-blog so that others don’t have to wade through long posts they have no interest in, I would be glad to have the moderator share my email address with you.”

    Would you please give them each other’s email address.

    I mean, pleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaazzzzzeeee!!!!!

  207. Elaine says:

    “The more usual context for me to use HB rating is something like this: (to the female secretary) We will need female promoters/models for the upcoming business event that we are hosting in a month; please find and gather 20 HB8+ candidates.
    She will know exactly what finding 20 women that are in the top 20% in terms of looks and sex appeal among the 18-30 age group means”

    Next time I see my ( adult and very succesful 😉 ) SD, I will ask if he would manage to give such order to his (female) secretary without both bursting out in laughter, and what her reaction would be:

    A. Call for the HB8
    B. Call for an ambulance

    @Alexis

    Yes we are that mature in Europe! Or should I say, some men in US are that imm…….
    Nah…., that would be nasty!

  208. flyR says:

    “””“When wronged, we voluntarily suppress our instinct to exact revenge, and instead submit to a system of justice that is concerned with the rights of the accused.””””

    I would disagree on two aspects.

    If someone harmed a family member I would be restrained only by the “cost” of instant justice, and that restraint might well be insufficient.

    As we have seen numerous times from the president on down there’s little hesitation to hang someone in the name of political advantage or correctness. Alan Dershowitz spoke ou on this (the WH put pressure on Harvard to silence him)

    I think the greater force in an advanced society is the belief in the system. When it is discarded through years of cultural “adjustment” you have change, and not for the good.

    Phrases like HB10, down there, spread her legs – I thought this stuff went away in HS or boot camp.

    Societies which evolved had a chance, but not a guarantee of survival. Had the 300 not marched to certain death at Thermopylae the history of Western Civ might have been brief.

    Sadly our popular culture deliberately shuns the concepts of duty and sacrifice. It’s all about optics rather than substance.

  209. Kms2014 says:

    HB12345678910 nonsense is what those PUA nerdy young guys who cannot get laid in real life without the help of ‘gaming’ women chat rooms speak of. Wouldn’t be surprised if Jacobshineforyourlove is laughing at all of us from his tiny apartment with grand poobah fantasies of reproducing the planet with his genetics from his fantasies while attending his local community college 😉

    Can we rate men on annoyance? The ‘Really annoying’ rating scale… Jacob, you are an RA10.

  210. Russian SB says:

    Elaine is the most kind person here , but Jacob’s posts, blow up my cute blond head ! And, for someone, they just unreadable. Jacob, what kind of topics you discuss on dates ?

  211. Russian SB says:

    Кролики думали что это любовь, а их – разводили …

  212. DorkyGuy says:

    Josh, I know you are having trouble keeping up… Here is the dumbed down version:

    Jacob: {intelligent point-by-point reply with terrific content that may be persuasive}
    Alexis: { Dorky is a naïve doo doo head, and humanity is stoopid. Get rid of schools because they just pass on fear and ignorance.}

    Jacob, I am having an enjoyable conversation, and even learning a few things.

    If you would like to take this off-blog so that others don’t have to wade through long posts they have no interest in, I would be glad to have the moderator share my email address with you.

    “PS. …and Jacob; don’t worry, EVERYBODY starts skipping your posts sooner or later.” ~Elaine

    @Elaine: LOL! I appreciate a good zinger, and that was pretty good!

  213. gtt_envy says:

    @Elaine, as a man that isn’t 1% of what some the guys on the blog claim to be I agree. Authenticity of certain stories and poster’s claims are in much doubt!!

  214. Alexis says:

    “But serious!?
    Highly intelligent, extremely whealthy, serious succesful and ADULT businessmen are actually using the term “Hot Babe rating 10 on a 1-10 scale”??!!
    Wahahah LMFAO! This is so childish, 15 year old adolescents talk!

    I have never ever heard a true succesful ADULT MAN (25+) using it!”

    Everytime you post, it makes me want to move to Europe lol. Seriously, are people there really that much more mature? It must be nice.

    “Most men are not looking for an arrangement as the old days where they wanted their freedom and would give us ours….. No, NO…Nowdays they want us to believe in the tale of the Love so that we cannot ask for allowance and no personnal expenses”

    Yep wow I’ve gotten so much “love” here jajaja. It’s hysterical. I’ve never had so many people break out the L word towards me in such a short period of time. It’s disgusting. All this emotional shit coming from guys here has me thoroughly nauseauted, YUCK! I’m sorry to have missed the time when it was any different.

    “Arrangement is the future of dating. Agree. Moscow already live in the future . Same, as, Middle East – they have it traditionally.”

    Almost everywhere does when you look at it. It was the US and its damn media that started this whole romantic junk towards marriage.

  215. Alexis says:

    “We establish social norms that makes it taboo to have sex without consent, or with specific groups of people (relatives, under age, mentally disabled, etc), regardless of the object’s desirability. We demonstrate empathy beyond our immediate kin, sending our own resources across the world to people we will never meet. We have a taboo on killing people we are directly competing with for resources.”

    Just the usage of “we” here reveals the posters naivete, especially on that last one.

    “When wronged, we voluntarily suppress our instinct to exact revenge, and instead submit to a system of justice that is concerned with the rights of the accused.”

    No one does this voluntarily. They do it out of fear. This makes it involuntary.

    “Many of the above behaviors are not passed through generations by genetics, but through a very long process of teaching the next generation accumulated wisdom.”

    More like passing on fear and ignorance, not wisdom.

    “@Jacob~ I like this conversation… thanks for taking it in this direction!”

    THAT would’ve been the correct stopping point of your post.”

    I couldn’t agree more here.

  216. DorkyGuy says:

    @FB – loll! wait, I did use the word “instincts”. Most instincts are a phenotype that have a likely genetic basis, even if we have not identified the genes in question.

  217. DorkyGuy says:

    @Jacob- running short on time, but I will read and reply this afternoon. By the way, given your interest in genetics and your forward-thinking concerns about population, you may enjoy the study of dysgenics, if you haven’t explored it already.

  218. Josh says:

    @Carminna

    If you spent more time screening and less time whining you would be just fine.

  219. DorkyGuy says:

    @FB.. yes, you are right. Perhaps I should have used “instincts” instead of “genetics” in that sentence.

  220. Jacob says:

    @Dorkster,

    I know what you are trying to say. Keep in mind though “natural selection” and social selection take place as long as sex and reproduction are taking place. Hormones and neuro-transmitters account for Hotspur’s behavior as well as instincts for restraint and waiting for proper opportunity before striking. Women have strong influence on the balance among men because they are the ones doing sexual selection on the male population.

    For women, however, the selective pressure is much lower. A healthy female usually reproduce, and usually limited by her own ability/inclination to reproduce. Getting the sperms from the wrong guy has not been a deadly mistake to her children for quite some time as the society has been prosperous enough to keep everyone more or less alive; her own life and that of her children may become miserable as a result of her bad choices, but the kids will likely survive unless we get another round of extraordinarily severe depression and massive wars (bottleneck event in terms of demographics and genetics). With survivability more or less guaranteed, sexual selection criteria can become entirely bizzare: for example, the peacock’s huge cumbersome tail as a result of peahens’ selection; in the tropics where food is abundant and predators few, the female essentially games for acceptability by her fellow female in the next generation. That’s also one of the reasons why females are obsessed with ranking among other females, and how the potential mate might affect that ranking: she is gaming for the selective pressure that will be applied to her future sons, as her future daughters will more or less reproduce. The sons are where the future reproductive pressure will be applied: some male will have many offsprings (alphas), while a significant percentage of male will have none (or even be recruited into paying for the offsprings of other males).

    The ability (or lack of) to exercise restraint is a heritable trait. Due to lack of selective pressure, the women’s instincts for mate selection has not changed nearly as much as that of men since humanity came out of the caves and aggressive resource procurement through direct application of muscle violence having been gradually replaced by skillful utilization of rules, tools and other people in a social environment that is predominantly peaceful cooperation instead of mutual predation. There is probably one of the reasons why War on Drugs came about as an excuse to lock up a segment of the population away from reproductive opportunity a little over a decade after welfare state vastly expanded to make irresponsible behavior survivable. The rules of the game is still being tweaked in response to societal response.

    Non-denominational Reproductivism is an attempt at shifting female reproductive pay-off matrix away from those traits that only carry benefit during the bottle-neck events to traits that are more beneficial to both the individual as the society as a whole during normal times of peaceful cooperation.

    BTW, exogamy is actually biological, not just a social construct: people are sexually turned off by other people they are familiar with before the age 4-8, but strongly sexually attracted to people they are familiar with after that age. About 15-20% female are also strongly attracted to male who are entirely different from themselves; that number for men is close to 40%. They are all built-in mechanism for preventing inbreeding.

  221. FatB'StardSA says:

    @RussianSB

    Not all women are bitches, and bitches are not all women!

    It’s nice to know Sasha Grey is not Russian…I don’t know why you want me to know this though…

  222. Russian SB says:

    I will not answer to your personal question, if all women for you bitches :)

  223. Russian SB says:

    Fatty, after first divorce, when women become clever, they chose arrangement :))
    And, just for you, dear – Sasha Grey is californian, no Russian.

  224. FatB'StardSA says:

    @Carminna

    “they cannot even afford a pair of Gucci’s or a house rent of $3000…”

    “come live with me and I support you an feed you and you should be already very happy with that……”

    You sound like a bitch. You will be lucky to find someone who is willing to support and feed you.

  225. FatB'StardSA says:

    @Russian SB

    So every woman in Moscow is looking for an arrangement? I do have a personal question. At what age did you decide an arrangement was the best approach?

  226. FatB'StardSA says:

    @DorkeyGuy

    “There are plenty of examples of how we choose to rewire our instincts contrary to our genetics.

    Examples: …”

    As far as I know, there is no “genetic test” that can be done which shows that any of the “bad” instincts you describe are governed by our genes.

    @Elaine

    “But serious!?
    Highly intelligent, extremely whealthy, serious succesful and ADULT businessmen are actually using the term “Hot Babe rating 10 on a 1-10 scale”??!!
    Wahahah LMFAO! This is so childish, 15 year old adolescents talk!”

    You need to get over yourself.

  227. Russian SB says:

    Arrangement is the future of dating. Agree. Moscow already live in the future . Same, as, Middle East – they have it traditionally.

  228. Russian SB says:

    I mean, ghey are AGAINST the idea of arrangement, and they stil using the site.

  229. Russian SB says:

    Carminna, but, problem is, I never meet with poor guys ( I done my homework good ), and, still, they fool me with “love” and pretend to be traditional daters on SA. I think, that we, girls, just should share such profiles, to save our time. Those boys are harmless, and, I personally don’t mind to have dinner at nice restaurant and listen about love. But they using this site with false intentions.

  230. Elaine says:

    @Jacob

    Well they are not exactly my fetish, I would call it more my SD selection criteria…

  231. Jacob says:

    @Elaine,

    The more usual context for me to use HB rating is something like this: (to the female secretary) We will need female promoters/models for the upcoming business event that we are hosting in a month; please find and gather 20 HB8+ candidates.

    She will know exactly what finding 20 women that are in the top 20% in terms of looks and sex appeal among the 18-30 age group means.

    Your contrived scenario should have stopped at him mumbling. Mumbling itself is enough for me to next a male interviewee in normal business context. OTOH, HB rating is frequently used by both men and women in the proper context. Women actually are more rank-aware than men. For example, your fetish with celebrity executives.

  232. Carminna says:

    Russian SB says:
    I know, that site works. But , after one year brake, I attract only LOVE seekers.
    Do I look so romantic, sugars or …
    I am newbie AGAIN ? :)))))))

    No Russian SB, you are not a newbie again, I found the same thing…. the fashion now is that they fihure out that most girls are desperate for monney and they want to trow us a bonne by saying they love us and we should be their SB with the arrangement but, they will only provide for our living costs next to them in exclusivety….. In other words…. come live with me and I support you an feed you and you should be already very happy with that……

    Most men are not looking for an arrangement as the old days where they wanted their freedom and would give us ours….. No, NO…Nowdays they want us to believe in the tale of the Love so that we cannot ask for allowance and no personnal expenses….

    They figure out that offer is wide and even a lowlifer can sig up to the website and say he is a millionaire and do all he can to impress and makes us believe we are in the arrangement style, only to turn out… they cannot even afford a pair of Gucci’s or a house rent of $3000…..Hey….. but they love us…. Isn’t LOVE BEAUUTIIFULLLLLL

  233. Elaine says:

    “What is an HB10?”
    “Hot Babe rating 10 on a 1-10 scale”

    But serious!?
    Highly intelligent, extremely whealthy, serious succesful and ADULT businessmen are actually using the term “Hot Babe rating 10 on a 1-10 scale”??!!
    Wahahah LMFAO! This is so childish, 15 year old adolescents talk!

    I have never ever heard a true succesful ADULT MAN (25+) using it!

    Picture this, I am with a classy, supposed succesful pot. in a high end restaurant, a beautyful waitress walks by and I hear him mumbling : “Wow, look, an HB 8!”
    My God, I would choke in my mozzarella! (sorry Russian! 😉 )
    And I would immediately start worrying if his creditcard will work when it comes to pay the bill (sorry Evie! 😉 )
    And I doubt if there ever will be a second meet (sorry pot! :-( )

    No further comments…..

    PS. …and Jacob; don’t worry, EVERYBODY starts skipping your posts sooner or later.

  234. RSD says:

    @nicegirl, there is no question that love is real, just like the pain I feel in my toe when I slam it under a door is real. But neither is likely to last.

  235. DorkyGuy says:

    @Josh.. You are absolutely right. I apologize. I forgot your appeal for, people to dumb it down for you. It was a careless error, because it was a very recent request.

    I will try to be more accommodating of your special needs going forward.

  236. Josh says:

    @DorkyGuy

    “@Jacob~ I like this conversation… thanks for taking it in this direction!”

    THAT would’ve been the correct stopping point of your post. 😉

  237. DorkyGuy says:

    @Jacob~ I like this conversation… thanks for taking it in this direction!

    If you are looking for a strictly “natural selection” inspired cause for bonding, it is likely due to the very long amount of time that humans spend in the childhood phase, dependent on parents for provision and protection. Human parents must care for children for much longer than other primates before our children could survive in the wild. 12+ years.

    A strong emotional bond of parents with each other and with their children likely gives children a competitive advantage of reaching the age of reproduction and passing on those genes.

    However… trying to find a purely evolutionary, genetic, or hormonal explanation for human behavior will never provide a complete picture. Humans have repeatedly demonstrated the ability to contradict their own genes and base instincts on a very large scale. In some (thought not all) respects, we have ascended past genetics.

    Think of what society would be like if we were governed only by genetics and instinct. There would be a whole lot more murder, rape, and every other crime. (there is a lot, but there would be a whole lot more, as each individual was driven only by instinct).

    There are plenty of examples of how we choose to rewire our instincts contrary to our genetics.

    Examples: We establish social norms that makes it taboo to have sex without consent, or with specific groups of people (relatives, under age, mentally disabled, etc), regardless of the object’s desirability. We demonstrate empathy beyond our immediate kin, sending our own resources across the world to people we will never meet. We have a taboo on killing people we are directly competing with for resources. When wronged, we voluntarily suppress our instinct to exact revenge, and instead submit to a system of justice that is concerned with the rights of the accused. People voluntarily spend years in low income conditions while they participate in a system of education that imparts very technical and highly specialized skills beyond food gathering.

    Many of the above behaviors are not passed through generations by genetics, but through a very long process of teaching the next generation accumulated wisdom.

    That process may play as large or greater role in shaping what we think of as love and family structure than any instincts derived purely from genetics.

    The kicker is that this whole process is a tremendous act of human will. We decide to overcome our genetics, and we do, then we teach our children to do it too.

    While I agree that there are hormonal reward signals for intimacy, “love” over a very long term is probably more than simply hormones. Maybe some people choose to love, based on an idea of love that is learned from previous generations.

    Perhaps their impetus for this is seeing the benefits of long-term love relationships of their ancestors, and wanting those benefits for themselves. Who doesn’t want a full house on Thanksgiving, full of children and grandchildren in stable happy homes?

  238. Jacob says:

    @Josh,
    The last few posts from me were deliberately convoluted. They were intended for the older crowd with more attention span and analytical/parsing skills. I want the the younger and shorter-attention span crowd to skip over the posts and keep their capacity for love intact. Not for loving me back per se, but for loving their future children. Being cognizant of the biochemical basis of love and its unidirectionality doesn’t mean I eschew love entirely; on the contrary, I rather enjoy the biochemical process, under the right circumstances of my own choosing.

  239. Josh says:

    @Jacob, ever heard of term “dumb it down”? You might want to practice that ’round here. 😉

  240. Alexis says:

    Weaker individuals reject certain scientific facts because they cannot “emotionally” handle said ideas. I think it hits the change fear or fear of the unknown. Then again those are likely the same fear anyway.

    *shrugs*

  241. Jacob says:

    “I seriously was reading this and hearing the teacher from Charlie Brown in my mind… “Mua, Mua, Mua, Mua, Mua, Mua…. Come one this is ridiculous.”

    LOL. That’s when the A students and the F students are differentiated. Love and the pang from love lost carry tremendous cost to the individual; why have the human individual not evolved into all sociopaths devoid of any sense of love? On the contrary, evolution went the other way: from the reptiles not capable of love to mammals that are capable of love and devotion, all the way to humans that are capable of tremendous amount of drama. LOL. What function does the “love high” serve for human genes? Through what mechanism do the genes impose those “love cost” on the individual?

  242. Nicegirl says:

    @FlyR “The beauty of arrangements is that you are not trying to disguise lust by calling it love. How many women have gone home with only “I’ll call you tomorrow”.”

    So true.

  243. Nicegirl says:

    “IMHO, Love is the genes playing a trick on the individual via the endocrine system: making the individual sacrifice his/her own well being in the interest of the gene. The specific acts of sacrifice can be working one’s butt off to provide for the wife and children, to putting one’s body through tremendous stress to give birth to a child, to be willing to sacrifice oneself for the benefit of genetic kins (e.g. altruism).

    In many ways, the endocrine and neurological passage ways for love involve the same dopamine receptors that can be easily degraded by prolonged drug use and/or privation/stress in life.”

    I seriously was reading this and hearing the teacher from Charlie Brown in my mind… “Mua, Mua, Mua, Mua, Mua, Mua…. Come one this is ridiculous.

  244. Jacob says:

    IMHO, Love is the genes playing a trick on the individual via the endocrine system: making the individual sacrifice his/her own well being in the interest of the gene. The specific acts of sacrifice can be working one’s butt off to provide for the wife and children, to putting one’s body through tremendous stress to give birth to a child, to be willing to sacrifice oneself for the benefit of genetic kins (e.g. altruism).

    In many ways, the endocrine and neurological passage ways for love involve the same dopamine receptors that can be easily degraded by prolonged drug use and/or privation/stress in life.

  245. Jacob says:

    @KMS
    “What is an HB10?”

    Hot Babe rating 10 on a 1-10 scale. Obviously, on a 1-10 scale, a real 10 is either a statistical improbability (singularity) or a >= 9.5 being rounded up to 10, i.e. the top 5% of the demographic group being sampled (and value being subjective; e.g. a 9.5 with big boobs is a 10 to a guy who likes big boobs, but a 9 to someone who prefers a tight and perky package, etc. etc.) HB10 was simply a short-hand for the theoretically most (physically) beautiful woman (specifics being impossible to describe due to subjective valuation difference among different men); in the context, it was an efficient way of illustrating the point that I would not want to flip the time sequence of my value curve even if If were offered the most physically beautiful body (a physical impossibility due to conflicting subjective values).

    As you can see, the 4 characters “HB10” was much more concise at getting the idea across than the entire paragraph above. No, PUA does not have a monopoly on what is a statistical / economic / psychological / behavioral science issue. BTW, IMHO, PUA is just a junior high version of the real underlying sciences involved (including all the above mentioned plus biology and chemistry). Just like most women, most men do not have the attention span beyond what’s expected of a junior high student; it is said that most popular books, magazines and papers have to be edited down to 6-8th grade reading level in this country, and gradually going down over the years.

  246. Russian SB says:

    Thank you, mr.Wade, to reqruit some Russian sugardaddies to the site. Should I wear on Moscow streets/clubs an adwertisement t-shirt with the site name on it (if you send me such).

  247. Russian SB says:

    Than to be insecure with a poor husband !

  248. Russian SB says:

    I need to confess : I prefer to be insecure and with a wealthy husband !

  249. Russian SB says:

    Oi ! I mean, JOHN, vodka is chilling, vhenever you are tonight :))))

  250. flyR says:

    The beauty of arrangements is that you are not trying to disguise lust by calling it love. How many women have gone home with only “I’ll call you tomorrow”.

  251. Josh says:

    “If love is for the poor, then I’d rather be poor and happy than insecure and with a wealthy husband.”

    Insecure with a project, with a couple of children drawing Medicaid, is more like it. 😉

  252. Josh says:

    “If love is for the poor, then I’d rather be poor and happy than insecure and with a wealthy husband.”

    I secure with project is more like it. 😉

  253. Josh says:

    Re: The “other half” nonsense.

    I am not sure if the other “half nonsense” is prevalent in non western societies.

    Men and women are complete in themselves. They don’t “need” the other to be happy, per se.

    Procreation is a different story. They must commit to each other for the betterment of the children for around 20 years of each child’s life.

  254. SBNotConvinced says:

    This is silly. I am a huge proponent of sugar relationships, but to some how extrapolate that they will somehow displace a human desire to be appreciated for something beyond one’s “generosity” or one’s “companionship” is just silly. If anything, arrangements are a less evolved way to view human relationships and perhaps as income inequality continues to grow, we will see a rise in wealthy and powerful men using money as a means to attract women, and women in turn using their sexuality to meet living standards. I have found many generous, nice men on this site, but marriage is out of the question. Either this site, or the innate nature of arrangements is one of temporality and, as your site so aptly advertises–a temporality that favors male wealth and leaves women vulnerable, it is a “buyer’s market.” If love is for the poor, then I’d rather be poor and happy than insecure and with a wealthy husband.

  255. Russian SB says:

    Isn’t sugar love ? When man let you use his connections, his wallet, his body on exotic trips … I feel just a little bit loved, guys :). All my sugardaddies spend unreasonable sums of money on me, and the same time deal with my BS, only because they care about me.

  256. Russian SB says:

    Nicegirl, dear, I know. Those guys just using that beautiful site to find stupid students. They blackmailing me with “Love” statement, but hardly, they know what it is …

  257. Russian SB says:

    And, Josh, vodka is freezing cool, and waiting … At least vodka is not in sanctions list. But Reggiano parmegiano and mozzarella in ! Bring some with you :)

  258. Nicegirl says:

    @Russian.. what you are describing is not Love… who could possibly know after date one if you are going to fall in love or if they are going to “make” you fall in love with them? The word is used too much I agree, but I also know that people do fall in love and it is genuine.

  259. Russian SB says:

    Newbie again … I am newbie again, la-la-la.

  260. Russian SB says:

    I’ve been bobmed with “L”word twice by rich men here.
    I am back at sugar life,since August, first -I met the nicest and cutest londoner, and , at dinner, before a dessert, he start ” saving ” me , telling me , that after arrangements, I will have no future in ” normal dating “, and, I will end badly.
    Today, another man, by mailing here, said, that I must fear God, look only for love, and….. ( guess what ) I will end badly.
    I know, that site works. But , after one year brake, I attract only LOVE seekers.
    Do I look so romantic, sugars or …
    I am newbie AGAIN ? :)))))))

  261. Nicegirl says:

    I haven’t had a chance to read through many of these comments but have read enough. Does everyone really believe that love is a stupid fantasy? Really? You have to love yourself to be able to love another and be loved back by someone else. Love is not a unicorn… it really does exist and even if you only experience it once with someone it is a gift. May sound corny but it is my truth.

    I think love can exist between SD and SB but I think more realistic is to develop a friendship love not necessarily a romantic love. I certainly have a deep admiration and love of sorts for mine and I believe I receive the same in return. Am I just kidding myself? I don’t think I am.

  262. Alexis says:

    “I offered love, affection, and a real future. Now I offer short term support and there are so many takers.”

    My species is really, really dumb.

  263. RSD says:

    @kms the girls who were not interested were the barely above average to decent looking but by no means hot classmates. I wouldn’t even look at a girl like that now, knowing I can do much better. I offered love, affection, and a real future. Now I offer short term support and there are so many takers.

  264. flyR says:

    Isn’t it interesting how “love” is reserved for those who can provide “sexiest man alive” looks, money, status or even project-worthiness, and NOT for a decent man trying to wade through life’s challenges in an honorable way?””

    I think a lot of the problem lies with TV and Movies , the heroes are no longer ordinary people rising to meet ultimate challenges. We seem to worship lowlifes and self selected victims.

    If you never applied yourself in school, dropped out at 17 to have a child and be a baby mama (repeat eery 15 months) , run with your druggie, hoodrat friends your life is pretty much going to suck.

  265. flyR says:

    @RSD “If you wonder why girls should run from me, it’s obvious. These young women should instead invest their fleeting youth into finding a more permanent source of support (i.e. a sucker-husband who’d take care of them and their babies happily-ever-after)””

    But RSD understand that 50% of these marriages will end in divorce, leaving the 30 year old with two children and an over mortgaged home in the burbs.

    My guess from the other side of the sugar bowl is that a lot of SB’s continue to date and some my have an IRL love interest. A recent survey showed that a majority of women have a Plan B man already selected, including many married women.

  266. Kms2014 says:

    What is an HB10? That sounds like that PUA BS…lol. That is another thing, think it is funny when men or women still rate people in an abc12345678910 after the age of, say 35 or 40. Really? What an empirically vacuous thing to do. So funny…oh, he/she is an QTIP6.725, hehehe! But, oh well, my opinion isn’t the norm, I reckon.

  267. Kms2014 says:

    I meant, it is not fair*

  268. Kms2014 says:

    Well, was a late bloomer, so noticed a huge difference in how people treated me, when I was told after my high school years that I was ‘hot, beautiful’…certain doors were opened for me with a nod and a wink, from a man who had that ‘look’ in his eye. Women know it…It is fair, really. However, much in life isn’t fair. I don’t think anyone complained about how their looks opened doors for them, if attractive, but at the same time, if ‘bimbo’ hot, then people might not take you seriously in a career where their money is involved. The curse of beauty can be true because the more you have the more there is to lose , if
    looks have been a big determining factor and your only means of survival…just look at some of the botched plastic surgery jobs in Hollywood…for many, their looks is all they have and is very hard to lose, and they cannot handle it. And, even so for a girl who started being a mistress or SB young, but never married or pursued a career outside of men providing for her. Unless she marries or has inherited gpfamily wealth, then how will she keep up with her lifestyle or survive, when her looks fade…

  269. Jacob says:

    “Try being a woman who is ‘looks challenged’. It is proven that women with good looks get treated better by both men and women. ”

    Then she would be just like one of the guys. All men are essentially equivalent to look-challenged women in their youths. At the rate that feminization is taking place in this country, many young men may just become look-challenged women. LOL. or worse yet, be judged entirely on their looks too.

    It is the hardship that a young man endures in his early years that makes hims potentially great. That’s one of the reasons why I do not want my future sons to grow up rich, but mere middle class in his youth will be ideal. They can learn to manage more after they successfully manage less first. Conversely, most girls and some boys are spoiled rotten by their parents and friends, and have boundary problems when young, then rocket up the craze meter when they get old and lose their “pussy pass”/”kid pass.”

    There is a thing called “the curse of beauty.” No, I would not trade my low start then rising value curve for an early high then declining one, even if I were to be put in the body of a HB10.

  270. Jacob says:

    @KMS,
    I’m actually quite content with my life. I was making and having brunch this morning. Will be taking the kids to the soccer game in a little over an hour. So no dating or sugaring for me today.

  271. Kms2014 says:

    Money is not everything, Jacob, obviously, or you wouldn’t be posting on here so much with your novels…doubt you are truly happy or you wouldn’t be chasing your utopian theory on blog, instead of applying it to real life.

    “RSD says:
    September 27, 2014 at 7:15 am
    @Brandon Wade, you’ve got me beat. I was 22 when I had my first kiss. Girls didn’t look at me until I was in a top-notch professional school, and even then not really until I finished school, by which time I was so jaded that I thought of women as disposable items for my entertainment. Then later, as the money started rolling in, I could barely take two steps without running into a woman willing to satisfy me.”

    Am just curious, RSD…is it that no women looked at you, or no women that was your ideal of ‘perfection’ looked at you? Am not trying to be rude or attack you but am just curious…find it funny that men oftentimes say this only when the type of woman they really want looks wise does not throw herself at them, or the geeky awkward young man they once were(just an example, not saying you). However, they disregard good and kind women that are not superficial ‘perfection’ in their eyes, as if they are nothing. Have seen many a man pass up a good gal in favour of chasing their superficial dream. And, they are divorced now, or bouncing from woman to woman, while have seen others bend their looks standards in favour of a good person and character, and end up being very happy. This applies to both men and women, though…many might call it settling.

    “Josh says:
    September 27, 2014 at 7:57 am
    @RSD

    WOW! I mean WOW! Well done!

    Isn’t it interesting how “love” is reserved for those who can provide “sexiest man alive” looks, money, status or even project-worthiness, and NOT for a decent man trying to wade through life’s challenges in an honorable way?”

    Yep, my point, exactly…are women who are not perfect or the ideal not worthy of love? You think you are judged so harshly for your status, looks or money? Try being a woman and only being judged by your looks your whole life(most times, by most men). Try being a woman who is ‘looks challenged’. It is proven that women with good looks get treated better by both men and women. At least things can improve for men with age and wealth status, while a woman is often disregarded after a certain age, especially, according to some of the men on here. That is where the harsh reality is and what RSD says is true, in regards that girls should run from him, and find true agape love, that is more than vacuous superficiality and is over once your looks fade, or the average three month allowance is over because the guy is tired of f—ing you and moves onto the next hot chick. Girls, get an education or career goals, even if you do marry a kind or (wealthy)man because there are no guarantees in this life. Or, at least try and find an arrangement where the man wants to see you in a better position than he found you.

    This really isn’t the place for this rant but something that is obvious, in that women are judged much more harshly by their looks than men. In fact, most men ‘think’ they are much more attractive than they are, while women often undervalue their appearance, due to low self esteem in American superficial media culture(seen in silly celebrity worship). People should focus on their character a little more, and wealth and looks a little less.

  272. Jacob says:

    @RSD

    “If you wonder why girls should run from me, it’s obvious. These young women should instead invest their fleeting youth into finding a more permanent source of support (i.e. a sucker-husband who’d take care of them and their babies happily-ever-after).”

    That may not be correct. You make more than 10x what an average man makes. In terms of surplus after the man’s own consumption, the multiplier is even higher. 10% of you is more value to her and her children than 100% of an average man. It’s just like riding in the steerage of an ocean liner to across the Atlantic is safer and more enjoyable than trying the crossing in a sail boat or on a plank of wood. Most ocean liners do not sink. Whereas the “sailboats” have 50% chance of sinking and leaving the passenger with only floating wood planks to ride across the ocean.

  273. Jacob says:

    @RSD

    Regarding the dating difficulties in early years, some of what you and Brandon experienced may have to do with immigration patterns of the time. I had no difficulty dating before I was 15 when I came to the states; nor extraordinary difficulty in the first couple years at a elite prep school, especially considering I still had an accent. Things went down hill when I got to the more rough and tumble engineering school.

    What I suspect happened was that:

    1. People naturally engage in stereotyping when they are facing unfamiliar subject. It’s not even racism, but simply people having to drawn upon previous experience and grouping of knowledge; human memory is associative.

    2. At the elite prep school, other members of the particular ethnic group were more likely from well-established old money that immigrated in the late 19th century or current super rich families overseas. The other students being from upper class and upper middle class also had less previous experience with the particular ethnic group; the novelty effect was a help not a hinderance with girls.

    3. At the engineering school, far higher percentage of students were from middle class or even lower middle class. The refugee immigration wave in the 1970’s and 1980’s (Vietnam War, “boat people”) had deposited a large number of that particular ethnic group in the US; people who were very much decent genetic material that survived culling of wars but temporarily disadvantage due to privation caused by the conflicts. Growing up in the 80’s and early 90’s, middle class and lower middle class class mates of all three of us had prior experience with visibly poor members of that particular ethnic group in their neighborhoods or at the edge of their neighborhoods, as the new-comers were still struggling to uplift themselves. So obviously the associative cognitive process worked to our disadvantages in dating. The same thing happened to Catholics, Italians, Irish, Poles and Jews in the past 130 years or so. It only takes a couple generations to make the new comers “normal” again, and for the better genetic stock to rise to the top, as they always do. We are already a generation and half into this process. Watch the early 90’s movie “School Ties,” and see for yourself how severely disadvantaged Jewish Americans had been in the early 20th century in terms of dating. People today may think it’s a bad joke or parallel universe thing, compared to today’s reality on the ground.

  274. Jacob says:

    @RSD

    Thank you for sharing your experience. IMHO, it is more realistic to perceive love as a uni-directional phenomenon not a mutual phenomenon: it is normal for a parent to be willing to throw him/herself in front of a bus to save a child, but would be very odd for a son/daughter to trade his/her life for that of an old parent. Likewise between men and women. Both asymmetries come about due to very good biological reasons.

    Remember the sinking Titanic scenario: it was biological imperative for the men to save the seats on the lifeboats for the women and children, and it was equally biological imperative for the woman to leave her husband behind and take the children to the shore then re-marry as quickly as possible so that the dead husband’s children can be taken care of. It would not be in the dead husband’s genetic interest for the wife and children to stick around circling the sinking ship.

    That is not to say women would abandon ship the moment the husband gets a cold; so long as recovery is possible, it is in her interest to contribute her time and energy to restore status quo. When both are old and no more children to take care of, she may also stick around because there is no biological opportunity cost. Until then however, there is a limit to her devotion to the husband/male-mate, and it is in the husband/male-mate’s interest that she does. She is not your mother, and she should not be expected to give you unconditional love. Her unconditional love is reserved for her children, hopefully they are yours too; that’s how both your biological interests are shared and properly aligned. Her love for you is ultimately manifest in loving your children, as it should be, by evolution or by design.

    There is no need to be cynical or resentful towards women; they are driven by their biological programming, just like we men are obsessed with in-and-out for no apparent logical reason or direct benefit per se. We are captains of our ships, and there are passengers. Those who have produced children for me earn their state rooms in the 1st class and 2nd class in the upper decks; those who have not are in the steerage enjoying the ride. There are more than enough life-boats on the ship for 1st class and 2nd class passengers. The door to the steerage is locked in case of emergency, in order to ensure the safety of women and children in 1st and 2nd class. During happier times, the door is open, passengers in steerage are occasionally interviewed and invited to 1st class and 2nd class cabins; it’s up to her whether she accepts the upgrade.

  275. DorkyGuy says:

    Yep, I predicted you were too inexperienced to understand. No surprises. The reason you think you see logical inconsistency is because you lack understanding of fundamental concepts. You are trying to understand a jigsaw puzzle without knowing what a puzzle is.

    I am sorry, but I can’t hold your hand any more today. I have a busy Saturday.

  276. Josh says:

    @RSD

    WOW! I mean WOW! Well done!

    Isn’t it interesting how “love” is reserved for those who can provide “sexiest man alive” looks, money, status or even project-worthiness, and NOT for a decent man trying to wade through life’s challenges in an honorable way?

  277. Josh says:

    @DorkyGuy

    “@Josh- I am interested in your answer. What is the difference between being “in love” with a girl, and “loving” a girl?”

    I am well past that stage. I have no current further interest in such hair-splitting. Go knock yourself out.

    Your original statement, in respond to Brandon’s assertion, was logically inconsistent, which I had no interest in explaining to you but John_Cage outlined to you. [Now don’t claim that I posted it as John_Cage. I have no interest WHATSOEVER to go into such details with you. You are permanently logically challenged. Hahahaha! See I like to write this kind of shit instead of going academic on you.]

    The relevant question is:

    “What is the difference between being “in arrangement” with a girl, and “arranging” a girl?”

    In this context, the former seems honorable, the latter is kinda questionable. 😉

    “That difference is part of what I am driving at.”

    Good for you. It’s whole heck of a lot better than “driving at” at old blind lady crossing the street in the middle of the night in a deserted part of town, and then committing a hit-and-run. 😉

    “You see the former all the time in Hollywood, but rarely the latter.”

    For the logically challenged, first ask which demographics the Hollywood movies are made for?

    Capisce?

  278. DorkyGuy says:

    @Flyr- yep!

    @Josh- I am interested in your answer. What is the difference between being “in love” with a girl, and “loving” a girl? That difference is part of what I am driving at.

    You see the former all the time in Hollywood, but rarely the latter.

  279. RSD says:

    If you wonder why girls should run from me, it’s obvious. These young women should instead invest their fleeting youth into finding a more permanent source of support (i.e. a sucker-husband who’d take care of them and their babies happily-ever-after).

  280. RSD says:

    @Brandon Wade, you’ve got me beat. I was 22 when I had my first kiss. Girls didn’t look at me until I was in a top-notch professional school, and even then not really until I finished school, by which time I was so jaded that I thought of women as disposable items for my entertainment. Then later, as the money started rolling in, I could barely take two steps without running into a woman willing to satisfy me.

    Love is BS. I offered love when I was 20, and got no attention (I guess I wouldn’t have ever been a woman’s project at any point in my life). Now I offer money and a fantasy-glimmer of a better life, and women lavish me with their bodies and, yes, hearts.

    Perhaps I wasn’t a challenge then, but am now. Every girl sees me and knows I’ve got endless choices of whom to sleep with, and instead of running from me as they should, they jump in bed with me.

  281. flyR says:

    Y’all need to consider the source of the Love comment. Brandon operates on the theory that there is no such thing as bad publicity. If they are talking about you that’s good, as long as they are not talking indictment.

    On millionaires – Reminds me of the line from Casablanca ” gambling here”. Of course there are SD’s misrepresenting their wealth and intent, they learned it from listening to their leaders.

  282. RSD says:

    @Carminna, you’re selecting poorly if that’s your experience. I actually make 7-digits, live a nice but not extravagant life, and have pretty consistently stuck to $4K/month allowances. Am I a rare SD? Yes, definitely. But I do exist. And in reality some SBs just want flings and find my longer-term, more-reliable arrangements too clingy/stringy perhaps.

  283. RSD says:

    @sugarbaby, “I sure as hell hope that when I am finally ready to become a devoted, affectionate, and faithful wife to a man and present my best self, that HE doesn’t get rich and leave me for some fling with a 20 year old. That would be just depressing.”

    Don’t worry, he won’t leave you. He will keep you and have his fling with a 20 year old at the same time. No harm done.

  284. Carminna says:

    Ohhh that statement that love is for poor people is really funny on this website…..All I see in SA is men presenting themselves as millionaires making a million a year but when we talk to them they dont follow up on a conversation or a lifestyle of a millionaire.

    And as for arrangements, yes all of them are availabe to negotiations but they want weekly visits of passionate love making and cudlying and walks and eating and watching sunsets for an allowance of $500 a month…..

    In what world are you living in…. in the city where I live the smallest rent I could find to live was $1500 and that is not even close to city center….Dinner for two at a normal italian restaurant goes up to $200…..so, where are the millionaires who can show a girl a good time? Instead, they are asking the Sugar Babes to pay for her own diner.
    Last time I saw one in public he gave a waitress a tip of $200, but, in this website they only go for an allowance of $500…..

    Even a Macdonalds employee can register here and choose his income more than 1 million that he would not have anny problem and he can even be veryfied, he would still be accepted…..

    Benefits of dating by arrangement is great for the CEO of the website, not for the people who are actually looking to date.

  285. Josh says:

    When the girl’s father in a formula Hollywood movie invariably asks her “does he love you?” before giving his blessings, the suitor is ALWAYS a poor chap.

  286. Josh says:

    I have never heard anyone saying “I am in romance” or even “I ‘think’ I am in romance.”

  287. Alexis says:

    “Love” really is a concept invented by poor people and/or the media. A way to excuse the lack of arranged marriages and unwed pregnancies by the underclass, perhaps?

    Either way, it served its supposed purpose and it’s time to move on to more realistic viewpoints.

  288. Alexis says:

    In this time period, pragma and storge are close to impossible to accomplish. People are much too self-interested. So while you may be willing to throw yourself in front of a bus for someone, it’s more likely they will throw YOU in front of the bus first.

  289. DorkyGuy says:

    Your original position compared Dad loving his children vs Dating and used it to support an argument

    No. I compared a dad loving his children to a man loving his wife. That has virtually nothing to do with dating or romance. In the latter example, dating and romance are how you get there, and may remain as fun components, but are not the end of the journey.

    You are betraying just how little experience you have on this topic.

    If someone you love (wife or child) is going through hell, you stand by them. You are willing to jump in front of a bus to save them. The selfless devotion is the same. When they are sick, you work 3 jobs to pay their medical bills, and you don’t give a moments thought of the hardship to yourself. That is an unsexy part of love that people don’t think much about, but it is the very essence of what love is.

    I don’t think Brandon meant “love” at all. I think he meant “romance”, or as KMS eloquently stated, “Eros”.

    With that interpretation, Brandon’s statement is not nearly as controversial.

    I honestly don’t expect you to understand any of this. If you had the experience to understand it, you would have done so before now.

  290. Cryptic Anomaly says:

    “Arrangements are the future of dating” “Love is for poor people”

    Seriously? That is incredibly sad, but I guess if you are a super dork who can’t manage to be romantic or woo a woman then throwing your money at her is the next best thing.

    Yes, I am a SD but I also like connection and I see “Arrangements” as a way to cut through the crap a little and get to know someone, it is also exciting and a romantic adventure but having it replace the normal form of dating?

    No thank you.

  291. sugarbaby says:

    I sure as hell hope that when I am finally ready to become a devoted, affectionate, and faithful wife to a man and present my best self, that HE doesn’t get rich and leave me for some fling with a 20 year old. That would be just depressing.

    I agree with “DorkyGuy”‘s side. Stop all your ridiculous arguing and face it–there is something pretty great about mutually enduring, pure, and loyal partnership to another adult.

  292. complicatedSB says:

    Random note: is there a place to offer site suggestions? Chief grip: when I block someone, please, for the love of Allah, just keep me on the page I was on originally!

    I was viewing a message thread and clicked the gear icon to block the offender. After clicking through the prompt, it took me to said offender’s profile page. Grrh. If any SA devs are reading, please fix this.

    Back to your regularly scheduled programming …

  293. John_Cage says:

    @DorkyGuy

    No. When one side clearly produces evidence that the other side is incorrect on something, the “incorrect” side will shift from its original position to something that’s yet to be conclusive deemed incorrect.

    Your original position compared Dad loving his children vs Dating and used it to support an argument. EVEN if what you said is correct, your logical structure is incorrect.

    For example, the statement “Women who wear blue are richer”, is obviously logically inconsistent. Now even if I found that the richest women on earth all happens to wear blue one day, it still won’t retrospectively make my original statement “logical”.

    In order for you to be logically consistent, you have to either go back in time and modify your original statement to something like… “Love is not the invention of the poor because there exist other similar type of love that is not based on wealth… blah blah…”

    OR alternatively, you can try to shift from your original position and say “Well, I didn’t really mean exactly what I said, I actually meant something else…”

  294. Kms2014 says:

    Eros, philos, agape…

  295. DorkyGuy says:

    Oh, are we just saying random stuff to make ourselves feel smart? That looks fun, let me try!

    A stingy value builds the addition. When does the canvas terminate the draconian limit? The rate categorizes the subdued feeling.

  296. Josh says:

    Keep changing the language. It will eventually become logically consistent.

  297. DorkyGuy says:

    Depends on whether you understand the difference between romance and love.

  298. Josh says:

    In your mind, of course. 😉

  299. DorkyGuy says:

    You have a PhD in logical fallacies, don’t you?

    There is no logical fallacy there. Parental love is not as dissimilar from mature long-term-marriage “family forever” love as you might think.

  300. Josh says:

    @Alexis

    ““Love is a concept invented by poor people.”

    I LOVE (haha no pun intended) this!!”

    Correct!!!

    Brandon is talking about a specific type of “love” primarily between a man and a woman, which involves sex.

    He is not talking about parents loving their children, and vice versa, or XYX “loving” a car or a song or a movie or whatever.

  301. Josh says:

    @DorkyGuy

    ““Love is a concept invented by poor people”… couldn’t disagree more. Which I believe was his point. Say something controversial and get covered.

    I can’t wait to tell my kids “I am rich, so I don’t have to love you any more. One day when you get rich, you won’t have to love anyone either.””

    You have a PhD in logical fallacies, don’t you?

  302. Alexis says:

    “Love is a concept invented by poor people.”

    I LOVE (haha no pun intended) this!!

  303. complicatedSB says:

    Not so sure I’d call the sugar bowl the “future of dating” … To me, it’s just one variant of the dating game.

  304. DorkyGuy says:

    Brandon, nice work nabbing a CNN Op-Ed!

    Hey guys, be sure to check out the comments section on the CNN link. Now that is a riot.

  305. Yeah, nothing of the party on the interwebs.

  306. flyR says:

    I am still waiting for a report from the LA party.

  307. flyR says:

    It’s not just the idea; but rather the combination of idea,packaging and promotion that has made SA a huge success. My guess the mainstreaming effort is designed to make the company acceptable to institutions as an investment.

  308. FatB'StardSA says:

    This guy is fucking funny. I love the part where he claims he got the idea for the site from his mom. I guess the other SD sites that were already around got the idea from his mom as well.

    I wonder if this will cause a ban?

  309. Mr. Wade, sir…your blog catches fire most daily. Any insight that would extinguish some of the flames, misconceptions, and possibly misrepresentations?

  310. Oh wait…Kirsten…it’s you.

  311. Could you share please how you intended the site to facilitate the actualization of your vision? Would you say that the sites manifestation reflects that vision? What has been your role as a benefactor, and what have been your desires and preferences in arrangements.

    I appreciate your time in sharing with the blog.

  312. It’s nice to read from you. Thanks for sharing.

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