3 years ago
So Many Shoes, So Little Time
  • Posted Jun 24, 2014

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Strutting through a room rocking a pair of Fendi pumps and a killer ensemble is like is like being Paris Hilton in 2006: AWESOME. Pairing your outfit with the perfect heels can take your look from average to jaw dropping. Some women get confused about which heel height is appropriate, showing up to a gala in flats or Target in sky high platforms. There are just some things that are universally ratchet.

To the misguided female, or the uncertain countess: follow this blog and ye shall be rewarded with proper attention from the right guy, be it a Daddy or a regular dude. Be mindful that the short girls can get away with an extra inch, but for the lanky ladies, an extra inch can intimidate gentleman callers.

Flats, Flip-Flops and Sneakers

As far as I’m concerned, flats, flip-flops, and sneakers are all in the same category. Basic styles like these elicit an air of nonchalance, and show that you’re not trying to impress anyone. If you’re going to a baseball game or a dive bar, a sandal or tennie is perfectly appropriate. A flat shoe will make make you seem more approachable, but shorties be warned: you will look short. When you know you’re going to be walking all day like at a festival, go for this shoe since they can withstand the most mileage.

Mid-Height Wedges

The great thing about wedges is they appear girly and elegant, while still being semi-casual. A low wedge can work for a sporting event or bar scenario, but with an added sexy element. Some wedges are as comfortable as sneakers, so finding the perfect pair for your footies is fundamental. However, paired with something more upscale, these chunky shoes will look out of place.

Kitten Heel (1-2 inches)

For business casual, these are perf. Most professional ladies work amongst men, who don’t want to be looked down on, literally or figuratively. Wearing these on a date or to a semi-formal occasion can be seen as lazy. Like, why didn’t you just go for a wedge if you want to be comfortable? Despite their playful name, this style is not likely to make him purr.

Moderate Heel (2-4 inches)

When in doubt of the proper shoe to rock, utilize a smaller spiky or chunky heel. Maybe this won’t be your go-to shoe for a pool hall, but it will suffice nonetheless. From business to pleasure, a mid-height heel will make your calves look great without adding a stripperish vibe. For shorter girls, hitting the 4 inch mark is barely a boost, but for the taller ladies it can turn you into a giant. The average American man is only about 5 foot 9, so take that into consideration when selecting your shoe.

High Heels and Pumps (5-6 inches and beyond)

The super pump is not for everyone. Taller than average girls don’t need it, but it can be an essential upgrade for a club environment. Beware: we’ve all seen the girl who can barely walk in her stilettos. Do not be this girl. You will suffer embarrassment and likely a sprained ankle. Check out this informative video for some essential tips for walking in 6 inch pumps. The extra height will give your confidence a boost, but don’t overuse them. These shoes should be worn for formal and going out occasions only. A guy might see your stripper shoes and think: the higher the heel, the lower her standards.

I’m sure you’ve got 99 problems, but choosing your shoes should not be one. Hopefully your kicks will accentuate the rest of your outfit, which I am not going to help you pick out. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

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300 Responses to “So Many Shoes, So Little Time”

  1. Kms2013 says:

    @fbeestard…dirty but funny, hehe….

  2. FatB'StardSD says:

    @Kms2013

    “I am a Dominant woman so High heels are a must at all times. I love towering over my men looking down on them and they can see under my squirt lol”

    Hehe, dominant damsel….that is a typical autocorrect typo I might get, in regards to ‘skirt/squirt’

    She is into domination so squirt might not be a typo :-).

  3. Kms2013 says:

    “DominantDamsel says:
    July 10, 2014 at 6:14 pm
    I am a Dominant woman so High heels are a must at all times. I love towering over my men looking down on them and they can see under my squirt lol”

    Hehe, dominant damsel….that is a typical autocorrect typo I might get, in regards to ‘skirt/squirt’

  4. Kirsten says:

    Hey guys – we have a new SA blog out today, check it out! https://www.seekingarrangement.com/blog/four-differences-between-sugar-prostitution/

  5. Joah says:

    Not a problem. Get a good job and get as many shoes/heels as your salary may afford. 😉

  6. I love this article, need to break it down for the daddies to understand why we need so many pairs. Can NEVER have too many shoes.

  7. Anzhela says:

    I just looove shoes! Great shoes perfectly matched with the outfit will make you stand out of the crowd like nothing else, as well as good manicure when your toes are open 😉

  8. Cherribeary says:

    Heels are an acquired taste. They accentuate women’s physical features. Such as calve muscles, amongst others. I love high heels, I wear them everyday. I can’t imagine life without them. A girl can never have too many pairs of high heels!!!!! <3

  9. Slender 5’11” here and in 3.5″ heels every day.
    “Taller ladies”, relish in being a sensual sexy gorgeous woman with your heels rather than “…can turn you into a giant.” So so soooo hot.

  10. DominantDamsel says:

    I am a Dominant woman so High heels are a must at all times. I love towering over my men looking down on them and they can see under my squirt lol

  11. SunShineSD says:

    @Jplaying

    Thank you for the thoughtful comment and suggestion. Yes, at some point the core assets will be placed into a dedicated non-profit or non-profits, when the scale becomes significant and some of the mothers have been in the program long enough to sit on the board.

    I do try to gather all the positive aspects of the three pro-children systems that you mentioned. I just want to emphasize the voluntary nature vis Hilary’s “village”: the adults in my “village” are not born into it; participation is entirely voluntary by informed choice. I will also try to leave as much resources as possible in the individual mother-child households instead of the village common. The kids play together only when they are with me (eventually dividing into 2 to 3 groups for different days of the week, to keep each group to no more than 4 kids or so) and when the individual mother chooses to let her kid play with the siblings. Otherwise, each kid has his/her own house and household. Mutual adoption in case of death or incapacitation is also voluntary, and of course with incentives from me. I’d choose women who would be willing to adopt in those cases, and in my experience, most women are remarkably kind-hearted on this issue, especially when the additional child would not become her financial burden (in fact bringing financial surplus instead).

  12. kattrina says:

    i just think high heels are a must at all times and the more the better … that reminds me i need like a 100 more pairs

  13. Jplaying says:

    @Sunshine
    Maybe you SHOULD found a church and make these unions a religiously-based contractual arrangement…then you can “donate” your investments to the non-profit and continue the significant returns without having to pay taxes…what a boost to the return, and ability to care for mothers and children into the future (hahahaha)

  14. Jplaying says:

    @Sunshine:

    I wouldn’t degrade polyamory so much…while I have seen more of the “pot-smoking xbox-playing” profiles than the non, there are women (and men) who believe you can be in love with more than one person at a time. It is no different than a happily-married (in every sense but intimacy) SD “falling for” a SB.

    I’ve read through this entire string of comments (wasting the better part of the morning) really working through your plan. In ONLY my opinion, it seems you have developed a hybrid of polyamory, polygamy and Hillary’s “Village”. Here’s why I think this:

    1. in many polygamist families there is a commitment to adopt the children of a deceased mother by the other mothers.
    2. in polyamory the jealousy of your lover being with another lover (at any point in the relationship — even after the termination of the relationship) is minimized.
    3. the communal aspects you started to divulge later in the thread indicate you want everyone to know of and interact with each other…an openness tending toward the “village”, as well as the polygamy and even the polyamory.

    I wish you complete luck…if there is one thing this country and world needs, it is more LOVED children!

  15. SunShineSD says:

    Polyamory is a mind game played by women in difficult circumstances in order to induce multiple men to support her child simultaneously. It’s the human equivalent of the female alpha wolf letting the beta male wolves pee on her butt from time to time so as to plant the doubt in their heads that the puppies might be theirs instead of the alpha male’s. Some mountain tribes also have brothers sharing a wife because the farming conditions in the mountains are too poor to support separate wives, and the brothers’ genes are close enough anyway.

    Polyamory makes little sense for a man in a modern highly productive society unless he is a pot-smoking xbox-playing loser who can not really afford to have a child therefore has to pimp his girl to get money to pay for the child’s living expenses. For the girl, it’s fun for a time, but eventually becomes a dangerous race against time: whether she can still snag a man of sufficient wattage before all the men leave her.

  16. SunShineSD says:

    Here are some real numbers to illustrate the first point in my previous post:

    The national average child support payment is less than $400/mo; the median below $300/mo; these numbers are obviously not enough to cover the entire cost of raising a child, the court counting on half the expense from the custodial parent (mother), which means the new man would have to foot the bill. That’s the real reason why men often refuse to take on women with “baggage.”

    Subsidy for foster families in most states is $600-$800/mo. At that rate, there is no shortage of foster families, in which the father would have to be willing to raise someone else’ child before they can be a foster family.

    I will be paying multiple times that foster family rate. That’s income for her and her new family without requiring her to work outside the family. So there should not be a shortage of men willing to take on a mother of my children, if she chooses to find a man to marry. Of course, I will also make sure to pick only the beautiful and smart ones to be the mothers of my children 😉 and young too, so their new men will be lucky to have them. Heck, if the woman is an orphan, I might even walk her down the aisle at the wedding. I’d really be the “daddy” at that point providing her with the sizable dowry.

  17. SunShineSD says:

    Men often refuse to raise someone else’ baby because they understand the usual division of labor in the family means the men are the primary providers (and the women the primary caretakers of the children). The child support provided by the previous man is usually nowhere nearly enough to cover all the expenses of the child, therefore the child would divert resources from the new man at the expense of his own children. In cases where the woman make more money than most men, she has no difficulty finding new mate. Ex- royal-mistresses with royal bastards were highly sought-after during an earlier era, just like today’s welfare queen mothers with sufficient lard from the government have no difficulty finding boyfriends, albeit questionable quality in this new context due to government putting cap on eligible income on the household making new marriage impossible. The secure income that the mother will receive from me on top of her own uncapped income potential will make it fairly easy for her to find a new man; the child will not be a burden for the new man, but a net income for the new family and their new children as the support will handily exceed the actual cost of raising my child.

    I want the children to develop their own talent and interest. That’s why I want many children. A tiny number of them becoming interested in my business will be sufficient. Not having to put the kids in a dilemma regarding career choice is actually an argument for more kids, not less.

    I can have much more time with my children than most fathers can. One on one interaction is actually more enjoyable when inter-spaced with group time. I want the kids to interact with their siblings while hanging out with me together.When spending time with me, it would be just like a normal family with multiple kids.

    When I’m in a stable relationship with a woman, I really have no desire for other women. So harem really does not interest me as far as the sex is concerned. Serial monogamy it is 😉

  18. Polyamory is starkly different from a harem…though what you speak of does sound more like a disjointed harem–applying no negative connotation. I mention polyamory as it is an alternative type of relationship that doesn’t fall in line with mainstream ideals…much like your plan. And the number of people open to applying these ideals is scant, comparatively speaking.

    Most women do want a traditional marriage and family, as do most men. The mothers, having children from another relationship of such unconventional sorts, might face challenges in finding a suitable partner after your initial 3 years of monogamous grooming. A man she does marry might want children of his own, and she might want more children as well. The household will become blended, and your child will be raised under a number of influences. Not to say they’ll be bad influences, but perhaps influences different from your own. If the mother marries a man with children from another relationship, your child might also be influenced by that extension as well. A child can be groomed to have certain interests, and many times follow in their parents life and career footsteps. It could happen, though, that your child might grow up and decide that s/he doesn’t want to run your business. That life would be easier as a dentist or engineer or post-acid revelation hippie. I have a friend who is conflicted over running his dad’s successful business. Says he really wants to pursue his own career, but doesn’t want to disappoint his dad. While he is fulfilling his father’s aspirations as his father has envisioned, he is not fulfilling his own.

    As for time…

    Not every father can say,”I spent over 80 hours with my kids last week.” There are not enough hours in the week, though, to do this with 6 children in separate households. Not that a father need be present 80 hours per week to have a felt presence or positive influence in his child’s life. If we’re comparing this to traditional child-custody practice, spending one night per week with a child from each household–enjoying the day together, having dinner, looking over homework, putting the kids to sleep at night, waking them up and dropping them off at school in the morning–might be just as effective, if not more, than the every-other-weekend arrangement most fathers have. On the 7th day, you could rest :). Seems like a lot of work, though.

    I’m only saying that your plan will need room for variation and unexpected outcomes, perhaps a plan-E for your plan-D. Your plan as you write it seems most possible in a more controlled, Stepford Wife type of scenario. Unless you’re able to tap into the small percentage of women who are open to and desire this kind of arrangement without malicious or desperate motivations.

    I think you might benefit from the support of a nontraditional family psychologist as they’ll likely have experience with issues that could arise…at least a confident with outside or more informed perspective. Might be good to have some female perspective as well. Is your wife aware and actively involved in your plan? You are very passionate and optimistic about your plan, and that’s admirable. I think that sometimes, though, things are easier to ascertain in theory than in practice. If you’re up for it, have the resources, and think it could work, then go for it. I, too, would be interested to know how it goes. Perhaps someone should follow you for a longitudinal study–really.

  19. “It’s the Man’s job to think ahead, with our brains evolved from hunting big games.”

    SunShineSD, you are out of your mind.

  20. Goddess says:

    Afri, I think you need to go on with your life for real. The truth is he only wanted one thing from you and that’s sex. As for me I learn a long time ago love don’t love me. And I am moving on with my life have fun with these guys in find someone who can really love you. Guys LIE

  21. Michelle says:

    It’s sounds terrible if a woman can’t wear and walking in a nice pair of hills. :)

  22. kiki says:

    Definitely a virgin blog! This I s very well written and perfect choice of word. Let me give myself a plug: I have a shoe store ! Fb: Sary’s For the Love of Shoes
    (Currently working on website)

  23. SunShineSD says:

    LOL. She certainly would have that option if she so chooses to devote the rest of her life to me and raising my children. I just don’t make that a requirement or my expectation of her for entering my program, largely because I am likely more than a decade older than the candidates. Comes to think of it, with my own life expectancy into the late 80’s and early 90’s, and my oldest kid turning 30 before I turn 60 in 20 years, if the candidate is looking for a life-time dragon slaying umbrella insurance policy, she’d be far better covered under my program than marrying someone of her own age.

  24. Josh says:

    @SunShineSD

    “having more than one with me might make her own life after dating me more difficult.”

    Everything in your plan is premeditated wishful assessments about women as if all of a sudden the modern cave women would prefer to slay dragons of sorts of her own or just because you egged them on with rebellious thoughts. 😉

    Why do you think that the modern cave woman would want to be with another man/men and have children with him/them?

    Why not just have children with you, raise them, and live off your retirement plan for them, just like every other woman wants to? 😉

  25. Im 5’11 and i find men don’t care how tall you seem as long as they are the appropriate style for the environment your in. Plus some cute pointy toe flats can still rock with the correct outfit.

  26. Im 5’11 and i find men don’t care how tall you seem as long as they are the appropriate style for the environment your in. Plus some cute pointy toe flats can still rock with the correct outfit.

  27. SunShineSD says:

    “Based on what you have written so far, your version of “serial monogamy” entails one kid per woman. That’s different from sticking with one child-bearing cooperative woman at a time to have as many children with as the two of you decided.”

    Then she would become your wife, in effect. I’m not against having more than one child per woman per se if she is willing, but I just think having more than one with me might make her own life after dating me more difficult.

  28. SunShineSD says:

    The word “she” was not a reference to any particular women, but a synthesis of almost all women that I had the honor of seeing for more than a few dates. I usually pick the strong-minded independent women (or even over-compensating ones), but beneath that hard shell the little girl / “victim” lurks looking for her boundary/swaddle/restraint, and not content/secure until she finds it 😉

  29. Josh says:

    “Of the 10% of couples that do stay happily married, the “primitive type” is grossly over-represented: where the husband let’s the wife free reign over little things in daily life but still puts the foot down on big issues and somehow maintain a credible threat of delivering a solid round of ass-spanking or the psychological equivalent of, without actually exercising it often. It’s like the little girl in her coming out testing boundaries and only feel safe when the daddy puts her back in place.”

    There you go. 😉 However, since the laws prohibit such ass-spanking the percentage of “happily married” is too low. And since I don’t want any trouble with the law I would prefer dealing with naturally submissive women instead.

    “I know this sounds incredibly sexist and counter-intuitive to the modern progressive conditioning, yet it is there lurking beneath the surface and jump up when least expected.”

    Fuck the “sexist” label. Too many many men have voluntarily emasculated themselves with the feminist nonsense. The same law that prohibits ass-spanking also protects free speech. 😉

  30. Josh says:

    “That’s always part of the plan, serial monogamy.”

    Based on what you have written so far, your version of “serial monogamy” entails one kid per woman.

    That’s different from sticking with one child-bearing cooperative woman at a time to have as many children with as the two of you decided.

  31. SunShineSD says:

    @Josh

    “Yes, because it is a good basic framework that you have put some time into.”

    Thanks.

    “No, because I think that the premeditated single-kid-with-multiple-women “may” work for you because of your specific temperament.”

    LOL. A lot of people are very afraid of pre-meditation or pre-monition, especially women, who by and large relish becoming victims of circumstances. Women are expert at making lemonade out of lemon; sometimes I wonder if they effectively seek out lemon. LOL. It’s the Man’s job to think ahead, with our brains evolved from hunting big games.

    “It will not work with a larger number of SDs you are trying to solicit. Starting with one woman and multiple kids has a better chances of working. Sex should stay in the mix since most men are not willing to go without sex for too long.”

    I think you might have meant “a larger number of men in general population.” Also, despite my earlier post talking about women might relish the position of being passive victim of circumstances and might relish some degree of “implied intimidation” from her mate, I’m not comfortable with rolling the laws back to a time when marital rape was de jure legal. Legalize prostitution instead of forcing a woman to put out just because the divorce is not finalized yet.

    “Just like a sugar arrangement, additional women should be engaged only when the current one wants out or you want out for whatever reason.”

    That’s always part of the plan, serial monogamy.

  32. SunshineSD says:

    Living in 2014 civil code, while possessing bodies and minds evolved during a much earlier time is the problem that we are facing. A lot of the behavioral weirdness and irrationality can trace back to the hard equipment and hard wiring evolved in caveman time.

    For example, girls’ tendency to enjoy fighting to lose show up at a very young age, too young to have much social conditioning involved.

    Of the 10% of couples that do stay happily married, the “primitive type” is grossly over-represented: where the husband let’s the wife free reign over little things in daily life but still puts the foot down on big issues and somehow maintain a credible threat of delivering a solid round of ass-spanking or the psychological equivalent of, without actually exercising it often. It’s like the little girl in her coming out testing boundaries and only feel safe when the daddy puts her back in place. I know this sounds incredibly sexist and counter-intuitive to the modern progressive conditioning, yet it is there lurking beneath the surface and jump up when least expected.

    Trust me, that’s not what I prefer. In my circumstance, I find the need to maintain what amounts to credible threat of violence in the long run not only tiresome and belittling but also risky due to potential lawsuit. Role play spanking only works for a few years, after that she needs something more real, and that’s when it’s safer for me to put her on a pension instead, and use money as support/incentive/constraint. There is an irrational human instinctive need to be swaddled/tightly held in order to feel secure. It is actually anathema to a lover of freedom and liberty like myself on a philosophical level, but it has to be accepted on the level of personal/intimate relationships as just how things are, instead of how they ought to be.

  33. SunshineSD says:

    @sweetie
    My apologies if you found the wording offensive. No offense was intended. Sometimes it’s hard to convey the expressions in text. The word choice was alluding to the new blog entry, specifically “doggie with a bone.” I never use the b word in real life, only rarely in jest or asked to talk dirty in bed 😉

  34. sweetie says:

    Josh, I noticed that too. I thought we lived in 2014.

  35. Josh says:

    @sweetie

    ”Wow, dude! Really? Did you tell your wife that?”

    Methinks that when SunShineSD sees a modern woman, he thinks of her as a cave woman. He makes frequent references to cave women. 😉

  36. Josh says:

    @SunShineSD

    “Then you are talking about the type of arrangement that I have been advocating”

    Yes and no.

    Yes, because it is a good basic framework that you have put some time into.

    No, because I think that the premeditated single-kid-with-multiple-women “may” work for you because of your specific temperament.

    It will not work with a larger number of SDs you are trying to solicit. Starting with one woman and multiple kids has a better chances of working. Sex should stay in the mix since most men are not willing to go without sex for too long.

    Just like a sugar arrangement, additional women should be engaged only when the current one wants out or you want out for whatever reason.

  37. sweetie says:

    I find the wording offensive, Sunshine. Nothing you can do about it anymore as it is all out there. I hope the men I have been with use better judgement when talking about me or any other lover they may have had or have.

  38. SunShineSD says:

    Sweetie,
    Please don’t tell me us you never fell in love 😉 Continue the reading to “unbending.” Women are willing to self-sacrifice to the extreme for the men they are “in love,” even if only temporarily.

  39. SunShineSD says:

    “If women are “by nature submissive” then what’s up with the bending and unbending?”

    I don’t know if you realize, men fight to win, women fight to lose. She bends over for the right man; unbends to challenge him and potentially find an even better conqueror (or just to have herself tossed out of the cave when she is beyond reproductive age). The pre-historical woman’s gene won by letting the individual carrier lose: whether by being raped by the physically stronger male or by being tossed out of the cave when she is beyond reproductive age.

    “The family oriented men don’t get “bored with sex with the same woman after a few years.” Some men are stupid and want to dip it wherever and whenever they can get it. But most men just want to do the act with certain interval with their spouse because it is their biological need. It is the sex rationing that gets them wandering. ”

    Diminishing marginal value happens to both sexes over time. BTW, couple losing interest in having sex with each other after a few years does not mean either partner wants to dip whenever wherever he/she can get. There are many people locked in sexless marriages for kids and/or financial reasons. If they break up after a while, each may pursue separate new monogamous partners.

    “elements of today’s typical marriage will have to be modified through mandatory prenup and undoing of the community property. Such marriages would be more like formal contracts to raise a family”

    Then you are talking about the type of arrangement that I have been advocating: serial monogamous relationship with raising a child together as the ultimate goal; if a split takes place, division of joint marital property is replaced by mandatory or pre-arranged support agreement. Perhaps I should found a new church and hold a ceremony to solemnize the arrangement as “religious marriage,” but of course can not be a marriage under the civil code in most states because civil code marriage would entail joint marital property, yet it does not violate any civil code on marriage.

  40. sweetie says:

    Sunshine “it’s just a matter of finding the man for whom she willingly bends herself over like a good b* in heat”

    Wow, dude! Really? Did you tell your wife that?

  41. Josh says:

    @SunShineSD

    “Almost all women want to have kids; almost all women are by nature submissive . . . it’s just a matter of finding the man for whom she willingly bends herself over like a good b* in heat (wait, that talk belongs to the newer blog! LOL). Over time however, familiarity breeds contempt, and she unbends herself then proceeds to attempt taking over his life. Historically it is her ability to control him and her dowry that keeps the man in line after he is bored with sex with the same woman after a few years; that’s how traditional marriage contract works!”

    Reads like incoherent thoughts to me. If women are “by nature submissive” then what’s up with the bending and unbending?

    The family oriented men don’t get “bored with sex with the same woman after a few years.” Some men are stupid and want to dip it wherever and whenever they can get it. But most men just want to do the act with certain interval with their spouse because it is their biological need. It is the sex rationing that gets them wandering.

    “For someone so anti-mind-fuck, it’s rather surprising to see you coming forward to defend traditional marriage.”

    When I say “traditional marriage”, I don’t necessarily mean the marriages we see today. Few elements of today’s typical marriage will have to be modified through mandatory prenup and undoing of the community property. Such marriages would be more like formal contracts to raise a family and less like lets-get-married-because-we-love-each-other.

    I really don’t have a detailed framework to embellish on though. 😉

  42. SunShineSD says:

    @Josh

    Almost all women want to have kids; almost all women are by nature submissive . . . it’s just a matter of finding the man for whom she willingly bends herself over like a good b* in heat (wait, that talk belongs to the newer blog! LOL). Over time however, familiarity breeds contempt, and she unbends herself then proceeds to attempt taking over his life. Historically it is her ability to control him and her dowry that keeps the man in line after he is bored with sex with the same woman after a few years; that’s how traditional marriage contract works! For someone so anti-mind-fuck, it’s rather surprising to see you coming forward to defend traditional marriage.

    I’m too non-controlling by nature to keep a woman sexually for more than a few years, and too anti-control to put up with someone trying to control my life for long. I actively cultivate rebellious thoughts in people’s minds. In the long run, what I get in return is not a submissive wife that really controls her husband but an independent woman (aside from financial support from me) who will free me to cultivate new relationships.

    What I’m trying to do is a modified marriage arrangement: not womb-rental-with-long-term-care, but intense-genuine-romance-followed-by-long-term-child/mother-care as a princely reward for giving me a few years of her prime marketability.

  43. SunShineSD says:

    @Zack

    Sorry to hear about the difficulties with siblings. There is a “selfish” reason for what I’m doing: I want to be able to relinquish power and control long before my own death, so that I can relax and enjoy my golden years, but I don’t want to become King Lear. Betting on one or two kids would be too risky, especially if they become spoiled rotten due to a significant surplus of resources.

    Also, by temperament, I love working the numbers and aggregating wealth, but I do not wish to run other people’s lives or become an “imperator”; I relish the potential but don’t want to exercise power over other people. LOL. As the old saying goes, cattle convert grass into milk and beef, but the milk and beef belong to the farmer; the farmer raises money from the sales but much of the money belong to the landlord, the magistrate and the tax collector. I do not wish to become target of “harvesting” and consequently provide the material basis for someone else’ empire building, so periodic spin-offs become a good idea. I genuinely detest empires and central planning. I want to enable multiple families and individuals in the next generation to have relatively independent lives (i.e. middle class families) that can do their own things, and thereby keeping myself and my family safe in my final years and beyond. I want to be able to drive around in a beat up pickup like Sam Walton did (okay, maybe not a beat up pickup), not having to live inside a heavily armed compound.

  44. sweetie says:

    Afri “One minute he is sweet and caring and the next he is ignoring me….and its not even like Im overly contacting him.”

    Whether he pays you or not is irrelevant. You are having an arrangement, so he shouldn’t ignore you. Do you ignore him? I’m assuming you don’t, so he should take his part of the arrangement as seriously as you take yours.

  45. Josh says:

    Since it is quiet on the blog, please allow me to jot down my two cents on SunShineSD’s womb-rental-with-long-term-child-support program.

    1. SunShineSD is too optimistic about his women’s long-term cooperation with him for the success of his program.

    2. Providing a good life to women is not a solid deterrent from female sabotage of relationships.

    3. The program will be as good as his luck in finding non-saboteur women.

    4. He will have to bend over backwards for the welfare of the kids just like millions of men already do in other types of relationships where children are involved.

    4. I do anticipate better possibility of success if he finds a submissive woman pretty much interested in having and raising kids, and has multiple kids with the same woman.

    5. The above would be a modified marriage arrangement where the mother is guaranteed certain amount of income and the kids will inherit his wealth.

    6. Although there are no guarantees in life, if done right, the sibling camaraderie has a much higher chance of success than the situation where all the kids are half brother and sisters.

    7. If I were interested in doing something for the future generations, I would work on strengthening the true and tested institution of traditional marriage instead of experimenting with new and unproven models.

  46. KatPaw says:

    @KMS

    Looking outside Raleigh prospective job is in Morrisville so looking in that area.. Good school district areas mean $$$$ rent. Good public school district is important to me.. Some way some how it will all work out.. It always does… Being diligent in my search while frustrating always works ends up working out.

  47. Kms2014 says:

    If you are in Charlotte…is very expensive….

  48. KatPaw says:

    *little bit of head banging* this rental housing search on a budget is frustrating.. Lmfao damn who knew areas of NC were so exspensive! Good schools means paying out the ass for rentals!! Everything I have seen is nearly double what I pay now! Eeeeeekkkkk!

  49. SunshineSD says:

    @soutern
    I’m not a Randian. I admire her for her intellectual capacity, especially at a time when independent thinking women were rare. I do not necessarily agree with her Objectivism philosophy.

    Nobody lives in paradise on earth. It would be futility to engineer paradise on earth (different people have different visions of paradise; value is subjective). All we can do in life is mitigating pain and suffering.
    For obvious political and economic reasons, TANF and government run Vocational rehab programs can not possibly devote as much resource and attention to each chosen candidate as I can as the exerciser of paternal parental right.

  50. SunshineSD says:

    Gaggles*

  51. SunshineSD says:

    @Southern,
    Thank you for your input. IMHO, the difference from NFL and NBA athletes and ex- athletes should be self-explanatory: those guys were raging hormonal buckets; the children were not even afterthoughts but byproducts. As the old saying goes, you can take him out of the trailer park, but you can not take the trailer park out of him. On top of that, the celebrity brings goggles of new temptation to the raging hormonal buckets everyday; It would take super – human self – discipline and self – control to take care of existing children instead of being tempted into sleeping with many as offered. The widespread bankruptcy among retired athletes despite very large income in their peak years should be indicative that most professional athletes were selected for their jobs for special talents quite unrelated to having a good frontal lobe mounted in their heads.

  52. afri says:

    OK you guys probably have long forgotten about my post and I have been MIA for awhile but…..My ex SD after rehashing things still takes no responsibility for his asshole-ness but yet that same day I wrote the post, he text me how much he misses me and wants to see me….of couse I went running like a fool. I am torn because although I do truly like him, I feel very betrayed, as though I am expendable. Like I am an object that he can toss away. He was feeling some kind of way because he liked me but felt like it was a lie because he essentially is paying to be around him and I get that. But I am confused. I feel compelled to prove him wrong but I dont even think its worth it because he is just an ass. One minute he is sweet and caring and the next he is ignoring me….and its not even like Im overly contacting him. I think I am just going to do what some of you have suggested and just back off. I am hurt about it because I feel like I have been taken advantage of…which sounds weird because he paid me…ughh I dont get it

  53. Dan says:

    @Josh…. In terms of meeting quality woman – which do you find better SA or WYP?

  54. Pour Sugar says:

    @Josh — I’ve been looking for another site to try. How well is WYP?

  55. Zack says:

    Sigh, though, in truth, siblings in business have done more damage to me than any “enemy.” “It’s just business” is not something you want to hear from someone you thought you could trust.

  56. Zack says:

    Suns really is trying to breed minions. Ones to continue his business and possibly philosophy. In any case, he definitely appears to have a real commitment to the prospective kids.

    That seems rational and important, imho. Plan, resources, purpose…

  57. flyR says:

    Southern SB “@flyR-I don’t really see the difference, but hey I always like to learn something new.”

    I think it is the intent to be a good father and also to help the mother.

    I was driving through heavy traffic one day with Limbaugh on in the background ranting about co-parenting. As he continued I suddenly realized that he was talking about a woman whom I knew and had actually discussed the process. One of the best mothers I have known ( other than my own).

    The difference with that and our own here is that he’s not inserting a turkey baster into the manufacturing process.

  58. SouthernSB says:

    @flyR-I don’t really see the difference, but hey I always like to learn something new.

  59. SouthernSB says:

    @SunShineSD-You are very idealistic and a knight in shining armor. You remind me of a modern version of a Harlequin Romance. I never thought I would see it, an Ayn Rand acolyte who wants to set up his own little version of TANF and Voc. Rehab.

  60. flyR says:

    @southernSB – I’ll give credit to SSSD that his plan is not about seeing how many ho’s he can knock-up but with healthy kids as a foundation. Personlly it’s far from ideal but hardly the babbymama process…..

  61. SouthernSB says:

    I think SunShineSD should discuss his plan with a few professional athletes or at least a few team owners because this kind of thing has been going on in the NBA and the NFL for years, and yes the children and all the baby-mommas all know each other. Despite that and all the money I haven’t seen one case of everybody living in paradise.

  62. SunShineSD says:

    Thank you, Zack. That was very kind of you.

  63. Zack says:

    SunS plan won’t come to fruition exactly as planned, but he’s probably going to do better by his children than average. He’s expressed a willingness to commit the money… and the time… to provide multiple mostly parallel, well-kept home environs. He seems to have enough of both of those resources to do so. He even appears to have an unusually good emotional balance, given the slings and arrows he suffers.

    Of course, there are others in the mix… the mothers and children, at least. He’s had a failure there already. But he’s adapting and still trying. I’m with Josh on this, I’d like to see how it works in practice. Marriage today doesn’t seem to work terribly well, perhaps at least some elements of his alternative arrangement could show useful ideas.

    Yes, there are risks to other than himself. Yes, strife and failure are possibilities… but I think less so than in a normal marriage, given the unusual amount of time and money he has to put into making his arrangements work. Why cling to traditional marriage? Is it jealousy or have the various balances and contingencies he’s building in gotten lost in the lengthy debate? He really does have a lot of fallbacks covered… far more than a fellow entering into a typical marriage, given the probability of divorce. Throw in a second marriage, and I think SunS’ idea is better than the normal track.

    Don’t tear him down out of a human effort to explore and seek a better way. As genetically selfish as his plan is, he’s repeatedly written of committing more time, money and thought than most put into family planning. Missing those details of the big picture set him up to be criticized for “strawman” arguments already countered.

    My thought on why this debate continues, two main reasons: 1) there are too many details of his plan that most critics have not read or otherwise miss in the lengthy discourse and 2) jealous posters; this is pretty big sugar on the table, in the long run.

    Live and learn, Suns, best of luck and thanks for letting us know how an early attempt has failed, rather than hiding from critics. Way to think for yourself.

  64. SunShineSD says:

    Staggered arrival means serial monogamy, which suits my personal preference anyway.

  65. SunShineSD says:

    @YGTBK,
    Thank you for your detailed post and suggestions. I’m not doing it for polyamory/harem or gene propagation. I would consider sperm donation to a lesbian couple only if I retain full joint legal custody with clause to take sole legal custody myself if the couple breaks up. At my wealth level, it would make no sense at all to donate sperm to a regular couple and give up parental rights; that would be like asking for someone to blackmail me. There are already court precedence for the child’s right superseding sperm donation contract; nor would I feel comfortable knowing one of my children out there somewhere potentially not being well taken care of.

    I want more children not for genetic propagation per se, but for personal and philosophical reasons: so long as I can afford it and my network can support it, helping another child born into a middle-class family (and helping the mother in the long run) is a good thing. I hope them to arrive in staggered time schedule, one every 2-3 years over a 20yr period, so that the support network can absorb and digest the burdens of new arrival before taking on the next responsibility. Genetic diversity on the mother’s side would be helpful, and result in higher parent-to-child ratio; not to mention expanding the support network to cope with the exigency should one mother have an incapacitating accident or illness. The system would actually be able to cope with special needs children far better than the typical two-parent family where both parents have to go to work.

    I plan on making peace and re-uniting with my maker after 80, after the youngest kid born to me by then finish college. My family history seems to indicate passing in the high 80’s and low 90’s, and still with very lucid, but I do not want to chance major scams or embarrassing myself after I turn 60, so new inductions and new baby making will stop when I turn 60. The kids and existing moms who are not married off to someone else yet by then should be plenty companionship for me. My oldest kids will be around 30 when I turn 60; they will be old enough to take over the running of businesses and the support network.

    Until that phase, I will have plenty fun and work cut out for me for 20 years. Philosophically and ethically, I have difficulty indulging the alternative scenario of wasting 20 years playing with door knobs and key holes, when the whole house with its interior wonders beyond the door way is there available for a good occupant instead leaving the place empty and let some squatter trash the place sooner or later in the alternative.

  66. Sunshine,

    I don’t object to your plan in it’s entirety. There are bits that could work under certain contexts. I think it’s highly unlikely, though, that your mashup plan will come to fruition as you envision. I can relate to the desire for a nonconventional family model. I identify as polyamorous though I’ve had just one primary partner for some time now. My partner lives some states over. In contemplating marriage (I could do with it or without), there are several negotiations and realities that have come into play. One, Im not interested in the traditional wife role. Ain’t nobody got time for that. He’ll likely need another partner…preferably one with whom he can have children should he change his mind about not wanting any. I was a young mother (1 child), and have lived life out of conventional sequence. I’ll be an empty nester in my 30’s, and have no interest in spending 4 decades raising children. A lot of women my age have gotten a good start in their careers, and have just turned their focus to starting a family. I’m just getting started in my career, and have very little, next to no interest in starting a conventional family. One of the reasons I am on this site as opposed to traditional dating sites is that I find that more men here have already experienced and come to terms with parts of life that are very much deal breakers in otherwise compatible relationships. I think that my partner and I would be better suited with me as a secondary partner but would not object to primary partnership as his wife so long as it’s understood and agreed upon that there will be a few things on the outsource list. I will never be jealous of anything born of him, nor anything he loves, and would welcome anything that enriches his life as, in turn, it enriches mine as well.

    Bringing to mind “The Honeymoon Phase”…this stage has yet to come for my partner and me, and likely won’t in the widely held sense. I think that “The Honeymoon Phase” should be an ongoing process of love, magic, adventure and discovery. My partner once asked me what our relationship would be like if what was supposed to be the Honeymoon Phase was so disharmonious. The thing is, neither of us has held any pretenses in our courtship. He and I were oil and water when we started dating. Highly incompatible but immensely attracted to each other for a number of reasons. Over the course of two years and enough miles in between, we have been able to identify compatible properties and diffuse other elements into something soluble. It can be quite beautiful, the alchemy of love, though intense and turbulent at times. But yeah, for most, the Honeymoon Phase usually wears off as pretense wears off. To credit, though, I don’t think that these pretenses are loaded with malice. I think that people genuinely try to compromise parts of themselves out of love and desire for their partner. Oftentimes, those parts are still within them, never ceasing to exist, and–in the more detrimental of situations–never ceasing to be expressed and acknowledged. People live this way for the sake of children, social status, companionship, and yes, in some cases, Gucci bags and Manolo heels. It doesn’t appeal to me, and doesn’t really apply to me having already replicated my DNA, having already achieved means to create an efficient enough means of survival (while I appreciate moderate extravagance, I could live a humble, modest life on my own career), and having learned to appreciate all of my relationships as opposed to being one person’s everything, or having one person mine.

    I think, though, that the disappointment of post honey moon period is in conviction of some finite state of love and it’s manifestation. In conceptualizing impermanence, I embrace that love and relationships are ever evolving. They are not the same fixture always and forever. This doesn’t minimize or undermine the labor and significance of loveship. It means that it exists in realms, and sometimes these realms don’t translate from one to the next, one part of the person to the next, one part of life to the next, one situation to the next. We want love to be this linear, uniform thing, and this is where we set ourselves up for failure.

    As for your plan, Sunshine…

    You might find sperm donation an effective alternative. Most who use donated sperm are married, middle-class + couples, successful single women trying to beat the biological clock, and lesbian couples. I think your offspring would likely fair better, and become more well adjusted in one of these situations. And you’d still have the reward and primordial satiation of enumerated offspring. As for having children to dote on…could you not achieve that with one or two mothers? Your plan otherwise is likely to become a bit convoluted, and despite your best intentions, will be contingent upon a wide degree of factors outside of monetary confinement.

    Thank you, by the way, for your reply to my question about outside relationships. To answer your question… My use of “life-partner” stems, I suppose, from my views of relationships. I have come to understand life and love through a process of experience and conceptualization, and I feel more liberated everyday as I continue to navigate this process. In the end, and at times when it matters most, it’s the relationships we build that define who we are, who we’ll become. As a polyamorous female, I have come to embrace a variety of relationships as meaningful and regard them as entities in my growth..even in the briefest of sharings. Polyamory has come to take on a number of misconceptions. Feel free to do a google search. Poly(many)-amor(love). Contrary to the misconception that polyamory=promiscuity, I don’t share myself casually. For me, polyamory is the embodiment of creating happiness, not pursuing it. It’s making love to all of my encounters…be it my partner some states over, a smile at a passerby, talk and tea with a dear friend, appreciating a piece of dark chocolate savoring it’s richness as it melts in my mouth and into my soul stimulating endorphins, or in a blog full of anonymous people all yearning for the same things yet compensating and compromising, hiding the same vulnerable truths from each other…that ultimately, we all just want to live, love, be loved, and be well without scrutiny and the burdening pressure of social inscription and conformity. Most things else are trivial. So. I say life partner because that is how I regard my loveships. As lifelong processes of enrichment that, despite the physical longevity of these relationships, will always have an impact on who I am, who I will become, and the person I share with others.

  67. flyR says:

    Is it time to return to our regularly scheduled programming

    sex and sugar – the best recipes

  68. flyR says:

    @42 “@SunShineSD: Consider the following fact pattern:
    Child #1 – 17 year old M, high school athlete
    Child #2 – 14 year old F, high school musician
    Child #3 – 11 year old M, plays soccer and baseball on weekends
    Child #4 – 8 year old F, does ballet on weekends
    Child #5 – 4 year old, has a learning disability, problems socializing”

    Think of all the wives of our military who manage to handle this on their own while their husbands are off in the four corners of the world doing incredibly dangerous things in very primitive environments. Somehow those kids generally turn out better than the offspring of attorneys, xbox addicts and far above the typical Hollywood crowd.

  69. SunShineSD says:

    Yup, Uterus Envy! 😉

    For me, the biggest “mind fuck” is making me waste time and money playing with the door knobs. I can understand that both women and men have evolved weird self-destructive urges: like woman wanting to control all the resources and time of her mate (lest herself and her offspring be displaced somehow), and man’s urge to be in-and-out accomplishing exact nothing except for perhaps a workout like on a treadmill. After the novelty wears off, its an aweful expensive gym membership if I don’t get to utilize the uterus and the knockers up-stairs for their functional purposes, and her fiercely protective mother’s instinct.

    Women are quite reasonable to deal with, provided you have their own interest aligned with yours. Having a wife worried about you might divert what is rightful half hers and her kids’ inheritance to someone else is a clear case of mis-alignment. Having ex-wife / ex-SB on a secure support and co-parenting arrangement with plenty reserves is a good alignment: their fundamental needs for baby and resources to raise the baby are taken care of, and they know where that security comes from; and there is no need to play games against you for more control over you because they are not in danger of being displaced and having support cut off by the intervention of some other women. As Southern alluded to, women can be mean to each other, and evolution taught them that way, just like evolution taught men to be obsessed with in-and-out. It’s not the woman’s personal fault. Tall fences make for good neighbors, then the neighbors can do BBQ together when they choose to.

  70. KatPaw says:

    For some reason I thought the “baby farm” was going to be left alone yet it seems to have taken over once again. * Sigh* isn’t there something more interesting going on in the sugar world???

  71. Josh says:

    Correction: When I say that I don’t want to deal with any woman on an ongoing basis, I meant in the “romantic” context.

    I have no problem dealing with my female attorney or my female interior designer my female colleagues and other women in an ongoing basis in various non-reomantic contexts.

  72. Josh says:

    @42SWM

    Even though I agree with FB that SunShineSD’s posts are “boring as fuck”, it is only fair that his posts are responed to in proper context.

    Personally I don’t want to deal with any woman on an on-going basis, this guy is a unique case of “uterus/womb envy.” So he MAY just be able to deal with as many uterus/womb carriers as he wanted to.

    I just want to see him in action with at least one uterus/womb carrier being of his liking. 😉

  73. SunShineSD says:

    @42
    For someone who swooped in here this afternoon with a tirade like this utter fantasy of yours:

    ” The idea that a father can swoop in with a check book once a month and serve in the role of a father is a lie that people tell themselves. . . . Now imagine a person with 15 kids from 15 different women.”

    and wasted an evening for everyone on your lies and straw man argument in every single sentence, you did not nearly apologize enough. Please keep your imagination to yourself next time, or at least take credit for such imagination for yourself instead of trying to pin such trashy male fantasy on me.

  74. SunShineSD says:

    BTW, intelligence and humor genes ride on the X-chromosome. So the mother is the more decisive factor, especially for boy babies.

  75. SunShineSD says:

    Thanks Fatty. We appreciate your back-handed compliments.

  76. SunShineSD says:

    @Beach
    I did not critic you. I only asked for reference on those well-provided-for moms and children fathered by some intrepid men having done what I’m trying to do. If they turned out badly despite the time and 10+x average resources from the fathers, that may well be the decisive data persuading me to stop early. Unlike some, I’m actually quite open-minded on the subject. Part of my advocacy is so that some other SD’s can launch similar enterprise and share lessons learned.

  77. FatB'StardSA says:

    @SunShineSD

    Your posts are boring as fuck => You are boring as fuck => Your children are boring as fuck.

    Please stop creating more people like yourself. Make the world a better place and wear a condom.

  78. SunShineSD says:

    @42
    “You don’t think your kids will ask questions? Again, this is not a balancing of two distinct families that know each other. Your plan is for more than 2 families that don’t know each other.”

    Not part of my plan at all. Is that your plan or that of your straw man again?

  79. SunShineSD says:

    @KMS

    Before we ascertain what 42 thinks of “it,” we need to know what “it” is in his mind. He objects to polygamy, absentee father, juggling and hiding kids from each other . . . none of which is part of my plan. Frankly its not even clear in what way he actually objects to my plan. He just launches into emphatic attacks on his straw men, addressed @ me.

  80. SunShineSD says:

    @42
    “This idea that you can swing in like a management consultant from McKinsey and Company, interact with kids for a couple of hours, and keep them on track is optimistic. That you consider it being a good dad is borderline nuts.”

    You are nuts for projecting your own fantasy onto me. I already mentioned earlier before your post that I just spent half a week in the past week with my kids . . . over 80hours straight, simply because the kids are on summer vacation and I have control over my own work time instead of having to punch in the clock at the office.

    “They will wonder where you are when you are with your other kids.”

    Do you think they do that too when you are at work? Can you imagine something more? They do not have to wonder, they will be told where I am or they’d be playing with the other kids in front of me, duh! Each mother having separate maintenance plan eliminates the need to be jealous, so they can share parenting responsibilities if they wish. My ex-wife met my ex-SB multiple times while I was dating my ex-SB/GF. They got along very well, and the ex-wife gave permission to let my ex-SB/GF watch my daughter. My ex-wife was actually willing to adopt the ex-SB’s child regardless whether that’s my child or not. Where would your child’s mother be if the one woman that you plan on making a mother dies in child birth?

    “It is one thing when parents break up and become part of two families. You are proposing something exponentially bigger than that. Nobody else in your plan has access to the other family’s calendars. You will need to hire an administrative assistant just to coordinate your family obligations.”

    Google Calendar sharing is quite simple and straight forward nowadays. When I’m old and senile, some of the kids can do the administrative assisting.

    You don’t think your kids will ask questions? Again, this is not a balancing of two distinct families that know each other. Your plan is for more than 2 families that don’t know each other.

  81. Kms2014 says:

    You get very defensive when people do not agree with your subject/project…if 42 thinks it is unhealthy, as many others do on blog as well, not just him, then why not have a rational response, or just be secure in yourself and your ‘plan’ and do not worry what other’s think, including myself, since you say you don’t care, anyway, but are often making rude comments that are untrue towards me, just because I disagree with your project. And, you do make a lot of assumptions of others, including myself, when that is the very claim you argue to be against, in that other people should not make assumptions of you.

    We know and are well aware of your project. You should go do it, if that is what you so choose, but really is tiring to read all your long responses as complained about before…

  82. Beach_Girl says:

    Sunshine, you don’t understand me, so why critic me??? please, lets all be respectful. I don’t get you, you don’t get me… simple and over!

  83. SunShineSD says:

    “Sunshine, it’s not new. A lot of people have kids with different people, it’s crazy to me… that is all. ”

    Well, then please find me a list of those people paying more than 10x national average child support to every single mother. I’m genuinely interested in seeing how the families and kids turned out. Don’t give me the trailer park trash who fathered a ton of kids and don’t pay any support, and the women that let them. If we use those for study, no children should ever be born at all.

    “Also, I said they didn’t work outside the home. Expectancy for women were different as well…”

    Household domestic workload was much heavier back then than now.

    ” I think you don’t understand my point and I really don’t understand yours and that is it… no more about this, in my opinion, crazy subject for me!!!!”

    It would have been helpful to understand what the subject is before becoming a critic of it.

  84. SunShineSD says:

    @KMS
    “Why do you even care what we think of you on here?”

    I do not care what you think of me, but I do not take lightly the propaganda launched against my plan. Public opinions do matter, as many readers of this blog are impressionable. I’m sure you would not take kindly to someone walking in here tossing w* and p* bombs on women here not in search of marriage or baby making partners. That’s essentially what the straw man critics are doing. A man with zero parenting experience thinks he knows the best on whether other real parents should make more babies and projecting a whole bunch of typical trashy male fantasy items.

  85. Beach_Girl says:

    42SWM~ I agree, I am doing the same. not talking about that anymore!

  86. Beach_Girl says:

    Sunshine, it’s not new. A lot of people have kids with different people, it’s crazy to me… that is all. I think you are delusional , but that is my opinion.
    Also, I said they didn’t work outside the home. Expectancy for women were different as well… I think you don’t understand my point and I really don’t understand yours and that is it… no more about this, in my opinion, crazy subject for me!!!!

  87. SunShineSD says:

    “life was different back then…Women didn’t work outside the home,”

    Washing clothes without a laundry machine, washing dishes without a dishwasher, and cooking without a refrigerator, mostly without even electrical or gas stove . . . made the work load of a woman back then much much more severe than the office workers of today, men or women. It was far more than 8hrs of work for the woman, and the men tilling the fields.

    “the oldest usually took care of the little ones.”

    Why should they be exempt from leadership training now?

    ” The economy was different also…”

    Like no ready-made dinners, no dry-cleaning pickup at your door, no house cleaner showing up in their own cars every week.

    ” I agree, having 5 kids with different mothers would be crazy for the kids.”

    Why? Each kid would have his/her own mother. Why is it worse than single child in single-parent families? 5 different ones? What about single-parent families raising two kids or 3 kids? What about dead-beat dads or out-of-state dads? What about dads that can only contribute less than $400/mo? that’s the national average! Why is 10x support suddenly making it worse?

    “It could be done, but still… a little nutty in my opinion.”

    A little unusual because it is a new idea, but that’s what makes sense in a society that does not enforce marriage vows but enforces child support decrees.

  88. SunShineSD says:

    “It is very different for two parents to raise 7 kids TOGETHER than for a man to raise more than two kids from more than two mothers.

    Synergies.”

    Which part of the dad of the 7 kids having died young did you miss?

    No kidding, Synergy. Never heard of cousins playing together? Why shouldn’t half-siblings play together? Mothers carpool and exchange baby-sitting all the time. Mothers hire neighboring teenagers watch kids all the time. hmm, perhaps you really never heard of any of that. You are just an “imaginary dad” lecturing a real dad who is already raising two kids from two different moms (from two different dads too, one kid being adopted) considering a 3rd.

  89. Beach_Girl says:

    Sunshine~ life was different back then…Women didn’t work outside the home, the oldest usually took care of the little ones. The economy was different also…

    42~ I agree, having 5 kids with different mothers would be crazy for the kids. It could be done, but still… a little nutty in my opinion.
    We all have different needs and wants , not all attainable but… we can all dream! (although, I think Sunshine really wants to do his baby plan) lol

  90. SunShineSD says:

    @42
    “Are you incapable of arguing in a straight-forward manner, or merely unwilling to do so?
    This was a disappointing exchange for so many reasons.”

    Speak for yourself. Every single one of your objection has been imaginary or already answered/addressed multiple times long time ago. You just keep coming up more and more strawman arguments and figments of your own imagination and fantasies. Deal with your own demons in your own closet.

  91. 42SWM says:

    I do apologize to the readers of this blog for adding considerable fuel to the fire. I shall cease my involvement on this topic in the hopes that others will do the same.

  92. 42SWM says:

    @SunShineSD:

    It is very different for two parents to raise 7 kids TOGETHER than for a man to raise more than two kids from more than two mothers.

    Synergies.

  93. SunShineSD says:

    “Nothing I have written supports “financial dads” or “polygammy”. Nor have I put forth any kind of “plan” for bringing kids into this world. ”

    You are projecting your own fantasy onto my plan. My plan description explicitly and repeatedly precluded such male fantasy items . . . yet you insisted on making such projections. It’s quite clear those are your own dreams and fantasies.

  94. SunShineSD says:

    @42
    Serious, how do families of only two parents juggle 5 kids? That was the norm for the baby boomers’ parents. My dad’s parents had 4 kids, my mom’s parents had 5 kids, my ex-wife’s grandma had 7 kids and her grandpa died young. How did they all make it? How would the addition of 4 more moms to help with the 5 kids suddenly make it all impossible? Let’s also not forget, driverless cars are only 5-10 years away!

  95. 42SWM says:

    “42′s own polygamous financial dad plan would indeed be a bad one. Please don’t blame his own aspirations on me.”

    Nothing I have written supports “financial dads” or “polygammy”. Nor have I put forth any kind of “plan” for bringing kids into this world. To the contrary, a fair reading of what I have written clearly supports the goal of a child being raised in a two parent household.

    Are you incapable of arguing in a straight-forward manner, or merely unwilling to do so?

    This was a disappointing exchange for so many reasons.

  96. SunShineSD says:

    @42
    Please stop dreaming. You are 42, not 4 years old!

    “In many “dad has two families” contexts, the kids know the other kids. In yours, they remain separate. If you don’t tell them about the others, they will wonder what you do with your time. If you do tell them about the others, they will want to meet them at some point or another.”

    Did you miss my post earlier about hosting my birthday and Father’s Day at my house? Heck, I may do Christmas and New Year’s too, like many grandparents do, where young cousins meet each other. Why would I want to hide the kids from each other? I want the 17yr old, 14yr old, 11yr old take turns watching and playing with the 4yr old if the latter has difficulty socializing or not.

  97. Kms2014 says:

    Omg! Instead of talking about it so much, then do it already. Before, you put off your ‘project’, due to your past SB getting pregnant by some other man, and you were trying to figure out what you did wrong…now it is because your car got stolen. Really? If someone really wants something, then they do it. Don’t just spout theories constantly on a silly blog. And honestly, if you are as rich and important/intelligent as you claim, then why do you even care what we think of you on here, and write extremely long 5-10 paragraph long responses and posts constantly? An intelligent man of means would be secure in himself to not let his ego get bruised constantly on a blog about his baby farm theories.

    Who started you again on this subject yesterday?…oh yes, thanks Josh!

  98. 42SWM says:

    @SunShineSD: I have no plans to make more than one woman a mother. Again, for a guy who complains about personal insults and putting words in the mouths of others, you seem to commit numerous offences.

    You know that your stated plan would be objected to by virtually anyone who hears it. Psychologists, ministers, social workers, etc. would say the same things that I am saying here. Your response is to put words in my mouth, to make personal insults, and to otherwise do precisely the things that you accuse others of doing.

    I have taken significant strides to address your position in good faith. I have repeatedly presumed that you are honest and well-intentioned.

    Your responses to me have not exhibited the same courtesy. If you really want to help kids, you would discuss your plan with someone before implementing it. I pray to God that is what you do.

  99. 42SWM says:

    @SunShineSD: Consider the following fact pattern:
    Child #1 – 17 year old M, high school athlete
    Child #2 – 14 year old F, high school musician
    Child #3 – 11 year old M, plays soccer and baseball on weekends
    Child #4 – 8 year old F, does ballet on weekends
    Child #5 – 4 year old, has a learning disability, problems socializing

    All of the kids have different mothers. This isn’t a dad has to visit two places on Christmas with 2 sets of kids. This is a 5 places to visit on Christmas with 5 kids. How are you going to juggle the time demands of five kids living in separate homes with different moms. Proper parenting requires an investment of time above all other things. Your view that a 17 year old and a 3 year old require minimal time simply isn’t true. If you want your kids to have the kind of upper middle class upbringing that you claim, you would need to be there for your kids. The upper class parents I know put a lot of energy in coordinating the schedules of 2 kids between 2 parents. Money isn’t going to paper over inherent limitations of time unless you can clone yourself.

    The idea that your kids wouldn’t ask questions like “why is our dad leaving early” (to attend your other kids) throughout their lives isn’t very realistic. What will you tell them? In many “dad has two families” contexts, the kids know the other kids. In yours, they remain separate. If you don’t tell them about the others, they will wonder what you do with your time. If you do tell them about the others, they will want to meet them at some point or another.

    If your plan is to raise 2 kids with two separate moms, I can see your point. However, your “rinse and repeat” strategy isn’t going to work well at 3 kids/3 moms and at 4 it will become downright harmful. 17 year-old boys and girls need parenting. Kids at every age require attention. This idea that you can swing in like a management consultant from McKinsey and Company, interact with kids for a couple of hours, and keep them on track is optimistic. That you consider it being a good dad is borderline nuts. They will wonder where you are when you are with your other kids. It is one thing when parents break up and become part of two families. You are proposing something exponentially bigger than that. Nobody else in your plan has access to the other family’s calendars. You will need to hire an administrative assistant just to coordinate your family obligations.

    You don’t think your kids will ask questions? Again, this is not a balancing of two distinct families that know each other. Your plan is for more than 2 families that don’t know each other.

  100. SunShineSD says:

    “42SWM~ I agree, the kids plan isn’t really a good one or thought out. It’s just an ego thing , in my opinion…”

    42’s own polygamous financial dad plan would indeed be a bad one. Please don’t blame his own aspirations on me.

  101. SunShineSD says:

    @Beach
    Not interested in polygamy at all. Only serial monogamy. One at a time. I don’t want multiple children born at the same time either.

  102. SunShineSD says:

    @Fatty,
    You have no idea how close to the sad truth you hit in your joke. Where do you think the cute half-year old will be in another 17.5 years? Glad I’m retiring in 20 years; I don’t want to know the details on what happens to the children of those having fallen off the track or don’t make the cut to my program.

  103. SunShineSD says:

    @Fatty,
    Capital needs labor to generate new capital. If I owned sweatshops, I’d need a few trusted lieutenants to travel overseas to oversee them. No, I don’t own sweatshops. . . but I do own some businesses and assets that I do not wish to spend as much time managing in a few years. That means, there is a need for lieutenants and representatives that I can trust.

  104. Beach_Girl says:

    42SWM~ I don’t see the point, the truth will come out eventually, why bother. Just tell the truth, but that is just me…

    Sunshine~ are you wanting to have a polygamous thing going, having multiple wives and kids? Because what you talked about before was just making kids with different women just coz!!!! really, I just don’t get you …

  105. SunShineSD says:

    @42
    Why would I want to attend the soccer practice or dance recital of a 20 year old? or that of a 3yr old? Such problems only exist for you because you never had any children. Even the 17yr old probably wants to drive him/herself to the practice/recital. So there are 3 kids in between . . . now you want to tell me it’s not possible for a family to have 3 kids?? How about two more moms to help in addition to the normal one father and one mother? never heard of carpooling? Why do you think there are 3-row SUV’s and minivans?

    How many professional advisors do you know who specialize on telling parents how many kids to have? Sees to me the complete absence is for an obvious reason: each family is different, and you do not know whether making the N+1th child is feasible until you are on the ground with N children for a while.

    The holiday issue has long been solved in divorced and remarried families. The kids love going to multiple parties. Heck, how do kids live with having one grandparent families?? Imaginary problems, I tell you. I will probably have my own birthday and father’s day hosted at my own house. It’s not like I have to hide the kids from each other, like I had to do last year when the ex-SB’s baby’s paternity was uncertain and I didn’t feel like telling my little daughter how pregnancy works. That was actually a difficult Father’s Day. There would not be such a problem if the ex-SB’s baby were mine instead of being unknown at the time. Try dealing with that problem in a “normal” family, yup mom is pregnant, but we are not sure if it is your sibling or half-sibling. LOL!

  106. Kms2014 says:

    Usually…men fudge about their height..and women about their age. However, on SA, many men lie about height age, and income, hehehe! 😉

  107. Beach_Girl says:

    42SWM~ 6’3 is a nice height. :)

    KMS~ I always get the SDs that lies on their profile, say they are tall and I show up with heels lol… I’m the giant in the room. lol makes me nutty, seriously, the SB is going to find out you aren’t 6feet lol…
    I mean, really we all know why we are here, why all the games?
    ok everyone is thinking it, games are only ok in the Bedroom 😛

  108. Kms2014 says:

    @beachgirl…I know! it bothers me more than them(I don’t date men under 5’11” or 6′ but with heels am always so tall…). It makes me feel so awkward if they are shorter… :-/

  109. 42SWM says:

    @BG: I would guess that 99% of the ladies out there don’t want to be taller than their man. So glad I am 6’3″–an edge at any age.

  110. Beach_Girl says:

    42SWM~ I agree, the kids plan isn’t really a good one or thought out. It’s just an ego thing , in my opinion…

  111. Beach_Girl says:

    KMS~ I don’t like guys to be shorter than me, I rather wear flats.

    FBSD~ 😀

  112. SunShineSD says:

    @Fatty,
    No, not waiting for the next model year, not even waiting for custom order on this year’s remaining production, just negotiating on the one car that has been sitting on the lot for one week still having wrappers on while 3 other dealers in the area are out of stock. Either that one or buying a different car in a few days. I already have two other candidates lined up. This is the longest car shopping experience since I bought my first car some two decades ago. Usually I just go in and custom order, and it is done in a few hours and the car would be here in 8-12 weeks; this time, I can not wait for 8-12 weeks, and dealer apparently knows it. LOL.

  113. FatB'StardSA says:

    @SunShineSD

    I have an idea. You can team up with Flyr. He can “mentor” your daughters when they reach 18 (and your sons to if they are gay) and take away some of your financial burden when your children get older.

  114. FatB'StardSA says:

    SunShineSD probably runs a sweatshop and is creating his own child labour force. The earning potential of every child making Gucci bags is 1 gabllion dollars over 20 years (assuming MSRP on the bags).

  115. 42SWM says:

    @SunShineSD: I care about kids, and in good faith believe that your plan if fully implemented would be a disaster. That is why I bother discussing this topic on this forum. If you are serious, I am hoping you will in fact discuss this with someone.

    I don’t think you are stupid or a liar, but I do think your plan would be mistake. I too care about the world and the kids are born into it. The fact that you cannot even contemplate my objections to be grounded in a good faith dispute about child rearing speaks volumes.

    Can you find anyone else in the world who agrees that your plan is actually good for kids?

    Can you not see that if you end up with 5 kids from 5 different mothers that even basic holidays like Christmas, mother’s day, father’s day, your birthday will become logistical nightmares unless you actually bring these distinct families together?

  116. FatB'StardSA says:

    SunShineSD cannot start his plan because he is waiting for the next model year to come out to lease his $60K car at a discount.

    It’s really funny when these high flying blog SD’s actually discuss allowance numbers, cars, or lifestyle. They don’t even know enough to pretend to be rich.

  117. 42SWM says:

    @SunShineSD:

    First, I note a refusal to even address the discussion of your plan with a child psychologist or other professional.

    Second, for a guy who complains about personal insults alot, you just made quite a few.

    Third, even a person of merely average intelligence could probably understand that the question of “where is daddy” is asked by a child under the age of 10.

    Fourth, if you are 40 years old and plan on having a kid every 3 years for the next 20 years, you will have 6 kids. 6 kids with 6 different mothers. Good luck trying to attend the soccer games, dance recitals, etc. for six disconnected kids. What will your father’s day look like in 15 years? How will you explain to child number 5 that you can only allocate 2 hours of time with him or her before you need to move on to child number 6?

    No doubt you will respond to all of the above with more name calling and insults. Very big of you. Keep up the good work!

  118. SunShineSD says:

    “If you really believe in your plan, I strongly suggest that you discuss your intentions with a child psychologist. If you are serious about your plans and if you believe in good faith that the end results will be good, why not invest a relatively paltry sum and speak to some child psychologists about it?”

    Do you really want me to discuss this with one of my ex-SB’s who never had any child of her own but is a licensed child psychiatrist/psychologist? LOL.

    How big of a statistical sample do you think she would have had previously to draw her expert opinion upon?

    Seems to me, a much more realistic approach is simply: take good care of the two kids already here now, make the 3rd one, see how things go for 3 years, if all goes well try the 4th one . . . rinse and repeat so long as the kids are well adjusted. Seems to be a far more deliberate process than most people go about making kids. Why are you looking at me with a stick up your ass? Are you jealous?

  119. SunShineSD says:

    @42
    Are you already senile at 42? How many 30yr olds do you know ask “Mom, where is daddy?” unless the dad in that case is senile and needs supervision. How many 20yr olds do you know ask that question? as opposed to the mom constantly calling up the kid and tell him/her to call home on the answering machine?

    You are fighting a lot of your own imaginary ghosts instead of reading what I already wrote numerous times. I’m 40, and I intend retire from making more kids when I turn 60. So take off your socks, then count on your fingers and toes, how many years there are between 40 and 60: 41, 42, 43 . . . I can assure you, it’s not 30!

    Primarily financial dad? Is that yourself? I just spent half the past week with my kids . . . that is, during days when the typical dads would have to punch in the clock at work while the kids are on summer vacation. My remaining car is so loaded with kids stuff that I’m holding off dating until the stolen car is replaced. Do you want to tell me something about “primarily financial dad”? Maybe I should look into that . . . perhaps even an “imaginary dad” like yourself!

  120. Kms2014 says:

    Hey beachgirl,

    Totally agree…am also 5’9″. When wearing heels, I often tower over men unless they are at least 6’2″…some men do not mind being shorter than me, while in my heels. The secure ones kind of like it, actually, if they are into tall ladies (: the issue bothers me more than them, me tinks 😉

  121. Kms2014 says:

    “If you really believe in your plan, I strongly suggest that you discuss your intentions with a child psychologist. If you are serious about your plans and if you believe in good faith that the end results will be good, why not invest a relatively paltry sum and speak to some child psychologists about it?”

    Amen to that!

  122. Beach_Girl says:

    Hello Sugars!
    It’s been a while, how is everyone?

    So many shoes and so little money …. for me anyways :)

    I don’t agree with the article, I’m 5’9 and wear heels or flats, not because I am insecure or not serious, I wear what I feel good in. If I am with someone that is short or my height, I wear flats, if it’s someone taller, I wear heels.

  123. 42SWM says:

    The proper math is 6.6 – 15 kids, but the logic remains the same.

  124. 42SWM says:

    @SunShineSD: If you have a child every 2-3 years over 20-30 year period you will have between 10-15 kids with 10-15 different women. You don’t think that will trigger jealously or resentment amongst the kids? “Mom, where is daddy?”

    If you really believe in your plan, I strongly suggest that you discuss your intentions with a child psychologist. If you are serious about your plans and if you believe in good faith that the end results will be good, why not invest a relatively paltry sum and speak to some child psychologists about it?

    Financial stress is a bummer, but is far more likely to be temporary than the psychological issues your plan is likely to create. I hope you include a lot of money for counseling and the inevitable rehab clinics when you implement your plan. I know a lot of successful people who were dirt poor at one time or another. I know a few successful people with totally absent dads who used that hunger and absence to fuel their drive. I don’t know of any successful people who had primarily financial dads. Your attempt at social engineering, even if well intentioned, is a very bad idea in my view. Even young kids will understand and ultimately resent your attempt to rely so heavily on money as a behavioral control device.

  125. SunShineSD says:

    @42
    Yes, that one variable makes all the difference in the world. Let me put it bluntly this way, if I were the father, she would not need to be on SA today looking for sponsor(s) in order to make ends meet for all three of them living together, while the child is barely half a year old. What do you think young parents living under such desperate stress is likely to do with what little money they get occasionally? especially with past history of recreational substance use? Not being the biological father, there is little I can do about it besides becoming the enabler, and then how much is enough?

  126. SunShineSD says:

    @42
    Are you thinking of having 15 women at the same time giving birth to 15 children? Surely I’m not. Like I mentioned before, I’m looking for serial monogamy to produce the children. That means, one child every 2-3 years, just like a normal family did before the 1960’s. That means at any given time, there will be less than 3-4 children under the age of 10. Do you really want to tell me one father and one mother watching over half a dozen children like the time of the Founding Fathers would give each child more parental attention than 4-5 parents watching over 3-4 kids under the age 10?

    The staggered arrival of children every 2-3 years will also enable older kids to help raising the younger kids, just like how human society worked for most of the past 300,000 years. Sure, there is always sibling rivalry to some degree, yet in this case, the age difference will reduce the rivalry and each child will have his/her dedicated mother . . . which means far less competition for parental attention than was the case for the average during nearly all of human existence.

  127. SunShineSD says:

    @Southern
    You have raised a very good question. I actually did think through this particular jealousy issue, and designed my system to solve the problem. Before I elaborate, here is a timely article that I came across today:

    “http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2014/06/the-women-problems-of-billionaires.html”

    So whats the difference between the failures vs. the successes among them?

    The failures were old doting men who tried to replace the ex-wife with a younger version of wife. The successes didn’t.

    What makes women jealous and what Josh says about women proactively sabotage relationships are resulting from the same biological urge to control all of the resources of her husband/mate, for two reasons:

    1. during most of human history, or critical times when evolution took place by culling, most men simply did not have the resources to support multiple partners or multiple children, so letting her male partner having the time and resources to wander around was potentially dangerous to the woman of antiquity;

    2. among feudal lords whose offsprings are over-represented today in the gene pool due to their selective advantages hundreds of years ago, inheritance meant the Sovereign right to kill in most human societies. That meant losing the father’s favor could result in one’s death due to the new incumbent not wanting potentially competing claims to the throne. Ironically, such fratricides only extended to legit children by succession of marriages, whereas the royal bastards never having any title claim prospered among the human gene pool.

    Those were the reasons why royal harems became dangerous and unworkable. It was an environment of kill-or-be-killed. That’s why I designed the system to explicitly avoid harem, and there won’t be a big winner-take-all inheritance title to fight over. The mothers will be encourage to give their own religions and last names to the children. Each woman and children pair will have their own pre-designated set of resources to work with, and to achieve higher levels of prosperity will depend on their own effort earning it from outside the “extended family.” There will not be a big feudal title with right to kill, or a huge pot of gold, to fight over when I die. The children’s inheritance will primarily be the opportunities they have when they are young; for the mothers, besides the help with raising children and launching her own career, the final piece, if necessary, beyond my own death, will be a comfortable but modest pension trust via my will (like Getty’s), not a right to make other women miserable. No one will be given such power, and there will be nothing to fight over. Notice, from the very beginning, I wanted to each mother-child pair to have their own middle class home, instead of a harem. It’s expensive for me to maintain such a discrete system, but produces many advantages in the long run. I don’t want them to live lives of many servants anyway, just a weekly visit from the gardner, house cleaner, handyman paid by me should suffice, like the normal upper-middle class family.

  128. Josh says:

    @FatB’StardSA

    “@FlyR

    Do you nurture your SB’s with the same stupid ideas you write on the blog?”

    If he did he would be paying stupid premium through his nose. 😉

  129. 42SWM says:

    @SunShineSD:

    You wrote the following:
    “In the case of with my ex-SB, we tried to continue dating during her pregnancy with someone else’ child; it just never worked. There was just too much uncertainty and awkwardness, and frankly, manipulation going on. I’m sure it was hard for her too, the open cookie jar drawing her in one way and all the hormones drawing her the other way. It’s not really my place to tell her to ditch the child and the baby daddy. Without dating between the two of us, no kid between she and I is going to be made, so there will never be return on reinvestment for me, therefore no investment possible or even advisable. Since the two of them have to live together to raise the child, I’d be at risk of being scammed or even blackmailed if I keep the cookie jar open.”

    So changing one variable (the kid being yours and you having legal rights with respect to the child) is going to change a situation from futile to desirable? One variable changes things from too much uncertainty/chaos to a great way to raise children?

    How much dad time do you intend to give to each child on a weekly basis?

  130. 42SWM says:

    @SouthernSB: The plan would fail for an abundance of reasons. Jealously amongst the women is probably at the bottom of that list. Rich kids without dads do worse than rich kids with dads. The idea that someone can be a good father to all of his kids after purposely sprinkling his seed amongst multiple disconnected mothers is deeply flawed. Fatherhood is more than an economic contribution. The idea that a father can swoop in with a check book once a month and serve in the role of a father is a lie that people tell themselves. It is challenging enough for someone to “be there” for a child when both parents are still living together in the same household. It is a lot harder when the parents split. Now imagine a person with 15 kids from 15 different women. Financial contributions aren’t the issue. Time management is. Either the “father” spends his entire existence trying to balance the needs of 15 kids in 15 different households OR the “father” is basically a father in bank account only. The model of purposely impregnating multiple women one time is damaging for everyone involved. I work with venture capital/private equity people on a daily basis. Thinking that money solves most problems is the arrogance of the rich and the foolishness of the poor. Financial status is often the consequence of other things as much as it is the cause.

  131. FatB'StardSA says:

    @FlyR

    Do you nurture your SB’s with the same stupid ideas you write on the blog?

  132. KatPaw says:

    Aghhhaaaa so pinned down the area of NC we wish to move but hell rental homes are competitive and pricey guess that’s what you get with good school districts. Heeellllllppppp is so needed! Or I need like the house fairy to pop the perfect add in my face! Lol

  133. SouthernSB says:

    @SunShineSD-I have gone over your plan in my head, God only knows why I’m taking any of this seriously, and I have figured out that regardless of how much money you have this “co-parenting” plan of yours with these SBs will never work. Now I’m not saying this because I think you are a horrible person or that you would be a bad father or anything like that, it’s just that what you are planning to do is nothing new. Men in your position and with your power has been having babies with multiple women of beauty, class, and intelligence since the time of the sheiks. The problem with the plan is always, no matter what, the women end up fighting each other for the position and attention that is bestowed upon their child by the father. Jealously will always be a problem, not to mention finances, and time should one of your children have special needs. Should you ever want to see what kind of disaster having children with various women is, even if you are a high income earner, make yourself suffer through a couple of seasons of “Love & Hip Hop Atlanta,” it’s a total train-wreck of a show, but in your case it should be a watched as a cautionary tale.

  134. Kms2014 says:

    Or, just didn’t proofread her autocorrected message…my autocorrect turns ‘penalty’ into ‘penis’ and ‘go, to, so’ into ‘ho’, quite frequently, in my work emails….

  135. Kms2014 says:

    Probably scam artist from another country…whose English language skills didn’t make it past, ‘scam artistry 101’.

  136. ss1959 says:

    OMG! I just received a message from a SB who claims she is going into her “soft more” year of college, and is looking for someone she can “get along with good.”

    I guess if she ever makes it through her “soft more” year, she’ll advance to being a “june your”.

  137. FlyR says:

    @fatty. If selecting and nurturing an intelligent SB of character is beyond you intellectual and/spiritual grasp I can only offer condolences. SBs come in all types. To each his own.

  138. Josh says:

    @SunShineSD

    Well in the fictional story they live happily ever after, whatever that means.

    In the real life it’s usually not the man who kicks the woman out. It is the woman who proactively sabotages her relationship by blaming that she settled for less and is not financially and/or emotionally overcompensated. The problem is that any amount of overcompensation is generally not good enough and relationship sabotage is typically self fulfilling prophecy.

    In your propbosal, since the vagina gets disengaged in a short period of time, or is not engaged to start off with in the case of turkey baster insemination, the woman will be most cooperative as long as the money keeps flowing.

    Your model basically takes care of two of the fundamental female needs. Having children and being financially set. It eliminates the artificial marital setup they had to put up with since eons just to meet their two fundamental needs.

  139. SunShineSD says:

    @Fatty

    Thank you for your compliment.

  140. FatB'StardSA says:

    If SunshineSD and flyr are real SD’s then I really sympathize with the SB’s on the site. It must take a lot of medication to listen to these two people in person where there is no escape.

  141. FatB'StardSA says:

    @SunShineSD

    It’s obvious to anyone reading your posts that you do not have a writing staff.

  142. SunShineSD says:

    @Josh
    You must be talking to someone else in the $25k for 9 months work business with your “womb rental” talk. That’s not what I’m interested in.

    BTW, how is Prince Charming an “emotional slave”? If I were to rewrite the story, Prince Charming A would dump Cinderella after the average 3.5yrs, and Cinderella gets zilch in the divorce because all the assets of the kingdom are in King Charming A’s name while Prince Charming A has no income and lives in Queen Charming A’s house. Then Cinderella moves to a different country, meets Prince Charming B via SA (gotta have product placement in the story somewhere), they sugar date for a while, then Prince Charming B falls in love with her and proposes, Cinderella wises up and tells him: if you have good intentions, you’d better knock me up! So they make a baby together and live happily ever after. Turns out Prince Charming B actually runs Kingdom B, while King Charming B and Queen Charming B are mere figureheads in that country as Prince Charming B is already of mature age.

  143. Josh says:

    @SunShineS

    “Good investment strategy is not free, and most high return ones have diminishing return if too many people are mining the same game. . . you’d have to share your “immortality device” if you have one and carry my baby inside you before I share access to my secret gold mine and “mining” strategy. Fair is fair.”

    So your womb rental based economic prosperity is limited in scope because it depends on secret handshakes and such? 😉

  144. Josh says:

    @SunShineSD

    “If I had a writing staff, Fatty, I’d have them rewrite the children’s stories for young adults.”

    Prince Charming has been selling like hot cakes for centuries. He represents money for nothing and emotional slave for free.

    If there were broad economic viability, a HNWI can easily hire such staff, go to town with womb rental fiction, and get at least 30% ROI.

  145. SunShineSD says:

    Prince Charming:
    (quoting from Wikipedia)

    =======
    Prince Charming is a stock character who appears in a number of fairy tales. He is the prince who comes to the rescue of the damsel in distress, and stereotypically, must engage in a quest to liberate her from an evil spell. This classification suits most heroes of a number of traditional folk tales, including Snow White, Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella, even if in the original story they were given another name, or no name at all.

    These characters are often handsome and romantic, a foil to the heroine, and are seldom deeply characterized, or even distinguishable from other such men who marry the heroine. In many variants, they can be viewed more as rewards for the heroine rather than characters.
    ===

    The evil spell is generational poverty that she is born into or at risk of falling into due to the decline of middle class in this country, and she has a high risk of passing that generational poverty onto her children; in her initial station, she is constantly tempted by various vices and pot-smoking x-players along the way that would lead her astray from her proper uplifting destiny.

    The “happily ever after” in a society that has stopped enforcing marriage vows lasts on average 3-4 years. The “happily ever after” under the protection of child support enforcement lasts much much longer, long enough to see her through attaining her own independence on top of a solid support network that would encourage her potential instead of capping it like welfare does. If I had a writing staff, Fatty, I’d have them rewrite the children’s stories for young adults.

  146. SunShineSD says:

    @FBSA

    Are you trying to incite more queries with your mis-characterization (“baby farm schtick”)? So I get another opportunity to respond and provide the details? LOL.

    Good investment strategy is not free, and most high return ones have diminishing return if too many people are mining the same game. . . you’d have to share your “immortality device” if you have one and carry my baby inside you before I share access to my secret gold mine and “mining” strategy. Fair is fair.

  147. FatB'StardSA says:

    @SunShineSD

    Why not give investment advise on the blog so we could all get a 30% return for 20+years instead of explaining your ideas again and again. If that is not possible could you ask the person who came up with the baby farm schtick to give you another idea for a blog persona since you obviously can’t come up with anything original yourself.

  148. SunShineSD says:

    BTW, I never heard of the expression “blondes are the best breeders.” My earlier comment about myself having been only with blondes was tongue in cheek (as noted in that post) poking fun at the logic fallacy in generalizing the unknown and lacking-basis-for-comparison. I have been with girls of most races and hair colors; however, now comes to think of it, blondes were significantly over-presented, especially if duration is taken into consideration. Almost a decade of faithful marriage to a blonde skews the numbers, and my last SB/GF had a long duration and was also a blonde. Both are natural blondes. Neither were breeders as both had difficult pregnancy/birth, ironically, perhaps due to smoking. I’m afraid I have to put non-smoking as requirement now despite my admiration for Ayn Rand and independent-minded women in general, instead of the past policy of “quitting smoking before pregnancy is good enough.”

  149. SunShineSD says:

    @Treasured

    You are not the first one to have knee-jerk reaction to someone else mis-characterization of my endeavor. The peanut gallery is fond of throwing stink bombs and then wonder why the place is over-run by the fire-fighting crew.

    It is not “rent-a-womb.” Real rent-a-womb has a market price of only about $25k per surrogacy. I’m willing to provide much much more for the mother and the child, so that they would be able to break the cycle of generational poverty that many smart young women born into less fortunate circumstances end up having to endure for themselves and their children. It’s her second chance to be born with a trust fund (10x national average child support or more), so she can build rewarding career for herself and put a silver spoon in the mouth of her child, a modern day retelling of the Cinderella story in a society where state enforcement of marriage contract/vow is replaced by state enforcement of child support.

    The goal is not to sire as many children as possible; if that were the goal, having the same woman giving birth to as many children as possible would be much less expensive. The idea is to give the child a middle class to upper middle class environment to grow up in. Why I prefer one child with me per mother? Because that would give the child more parental attention, and give the mother more time to pursue her career and perhaps even her own erotic-interest after our mutual romantic interest transform to co-parenting and companion/friendship with my financial support.

    Why having a child at all? So that she and I will have a common cause in the long run, so that I will have some influence and knowledge about how her household is run with my help as the biological father of the child, so that the money is not blown on drugs for her friends, so that I will have some natural business allies both in her and her child in a couple decades, so that I will be able to retire in a couple decades after I turn 60 to dote on the children, so I don’t end up one day giving all my money to another Anna Nicole and hurting her. LOL. Throwing $50mil at a bimbo does more harm than good to her, but a mil or two at the right time over the right time period can make a huge difference in the lives of the young mother and the child.

    Our society can certainly use more kids with proper middle-class upbringing in the next generation, as well as more Prince Charming (as Josh alluded to earlier). So this is not about my ego, but my advocacy for other SD’s that can afford it to think about similar endeavors. Think of it as wealth planning, perhaps spreading around a little voluntarily before the pitchforks show up. If and when the pitchforks do show up, the discrete distribution of kids with proper middle class upbringing in the next generation will be a much more solid bulwark against communism than anything else, instead of members of flash mobs that the young women would be raising under the welfare system. The “immortality device” is an awesome device, for good or for evil; someday, each of us will move beyond this world; what kind of society will have we left behind?

  150. SunShineSD says:

    @FBSD
    “I am very impressed by your mathematical abilities. SB’s discuss designer shoes and clothing, and expensive trips paid for by SD’s when they want to pretend how amazing they are and impress other SB’s. You talk about a $60K car. You can’t even pretend to be rich or successful.”

    I don’t need to pretend, because I am. Part of the reason of my becoming is due to my ability to manage numbers. The vast majority of High Net Worth Individuals do not keep $60+k cars, especially for multi-car individuals; not enough $60k+ personal cars are sold in the US to satisfy 3.5mil HNWI’s on a 3yr cycle, not to mention the majority of $60+k cars are probably snapped up by the much more numerous sub-HNWI wannabes. It’s silly to keep more than a nominal percentage of one’s net worth rolling on wheels on the road, unless we are talking about productive capital like long-haul trucks or trash removal trucks. Also, the reason I mentioned it was not so much about the price pe se, but the lack of discounting from MSRP, which is very unusual for cars in this price range that are not exotics.

    Perhaps there is a cultural difference here due to locations. Your area costs $2500 a year to insure a car and $5000 a year to park it, so getting any car at all in your area may as well be an expensive car, otherwise ride the Metro. In my area, insuring a car costs only $300-700 a year due to low accident and low crime rate (my car was stolen while parked in a different town overnight), and parking is free, however having a car is mandatory for getting around. You’d be surprised by how plebian the cars the average millionaires next door in my area drive.

  151. Treasured says:

    Re “honeymoon period and real love”

    Of course, in 99% cases, when people just meet they both are on the best behaviour. With time, they become more themselves. Sometimes, not that pleasant side is revealed, and relationship is on a straight finish line to an end.
    But, in some. Very VERY rare cases. When two people can think outside the box. And are both unconventional, magic can happen 😉
    What if I told you, I met my Mr. Man on a sex party (I was a VERY bad girl at the time). He was married. I was in a relationship with my Daddy. We had sex before he knew my name. He proposed to me after 5 times being on the trips together, over the span of 5 months (we lived in a different countries). He packed his bags and moved in with me to my country BEFORE we ever really lived together. I was married before and have two kids (they live with us, so kids “happened” before the relationship). He has a son (very ugly custody battle right now). I juggled him and Daddy for a while. He didn’t know. He got to know AFTER we have been living for a while.
    He is absolutely my best friend. And I love him more and more each day. He drives me crazy at times and I am his personal brand of coke.
    So, what if all bad and ugly happened in the beginning of a relationship? What then? 😀

    I happen to think, that for a relationship to last past the passion stage (lasts two to three years, and being in love, actually, is classified as mental illness, which can be treated medically 😉 ) two people have to be friends. REALLY friends. They should have same interests, same passions. Then it can last.

    Re “rent a womb”. Am I the only person who thinks it’s freaky?? To be with a woman as a purpose to sire as many children (from different mothers) as possible.
    I once had someone contacted me here with the same inclination. His opening line was “blondes are always the best breeders”! WTF!!?
    No offense, each to their own….. I guess for some women it is a good idea for a settled life… But for a man, I think, it is just a way of boasting his ego. I would like to hear counter arguments though.

  152. FatB'StardSA says:

    @SunShineSD

    “It’s a matter of principle and math. When you have an investment return average in 20~30+% per year, every $1000 saved now will become $40,000 ~ 200,000 in 20 years.”

    I am very impressed by your mathematical abilities. SB’s discuss designer shoes and clothing, and expensive trips paid for by SD’s when they want to pretend how amazing they are and impress other SB’s. You talk about a $60K car. You can’t even pretend to be rich or successful.

  153. Josh says:

    May we forget about the SB and her Xbox bf and child? That family is totally irrelevant to SunShineSD’s womb renting project at this time.

  154. flyR says:

    I really get Sunshine’s lack of bonding to the SB and her x box child.

  155. flyR says:

    After having a number of German cars for business I got another American muscle car to leave in the city and a German car to keep at home. I don’t worry about the muscle car in LA traffic, the parking attendants love it and it’s awesome in traffic. Goes to the body shop ever couple years to get all the little dents from asshole parkers erased. I used to fret at every door ding on the M .

    It’s interesting to see SB reactions and for me a good test. If they are disappointed with the car it’s not going to work anyway.

  156. flyR says:

    @sunshire
    @Josh
    IMHO, aside from sex itself, women behave the best during the (early) dating “honeymoon” (not the post-wedding honeymoon) and post-divorce well-maintained ex-wife phase. The latter phase actually is mature and pleasant despite not involving any sex . . . somewhat akin to Erich Fromm’s “brotherly love”

    Ironic that the post divorce “boomerang” sex was close to the early sex. The bunny rabbit sex returned when there was nothing to argue about and nothing to worry about …… and then we went our ways

  157. Josh says:

    @SunShineSD

    There is no doubt that presence of money can ease certain types of issues, but proactive relationship sabotage by women transcends presence or absence of money.

  158. SunShineSD says:

    She has to make whatever decision that needs to be made, by herself.

  159. SunShineSD says:

    @KMS

    I don’t think either one of them can raise the child alone and hold down a job at the same time; neither makes enough to make substantial child support payment if separated. So mutual enslavement for physical labor is pretty much the only way they can raise the child without giving it up for adoption. As much I might enjoy some degree of personal satisfaction if she ditched both the child and the baby-daddy in order to get her own life back on track, it’s really not my place to even wish for such a thing.

  160. SunShineSD says:

    BTW, KMS, I’m never bored of any mother of my children. I just think the sexual spark dwindles over time, replaced by monetary practicality and companionship in most successful marriages. These latter two can be fulfilled outside the marriage framework, which is designed for sexual exclusivity. Both partners can live more rewarding lives so long as mutual support is cemented by the child, a bond that usually doesn’t break except for shortage of money and resulting fights and hardship, or sexual frustration/jealousy. So I take care of the money and the lady takes care of making the baby, plus the new framework eliminating opportunity for sexual frustration/jealousy, we are golden.

  161. Kms2014 says:

    They have to live together to raise their child? Well, not necessarily. Of course, that is ideal, however, plenty of people who make a baby, without being married, do not live together after the child is born…and they certainly do not always get married…and even if they do, does not mean they will stay married until the child is 18. Are they getting married and living together now?

  162. SunShineSD says:

    @KMS
    We do not need to rely on hypotheticals, I will give you two real life examples to illustrate the fundamental difference:

    In the case of my ex-wife, our child was born several years ago, and another child was adopted. She and I are not dating each other, so we can co-parent the two kids quite well, while each of us date other people, just like normal divorced parents, except for the fact that I give her far more substantial support than typical divorced couples.

    In the case of with my ex-SB, we tried to continue dating during her pregnancy with someone else’ child; it just never worked. There was just too much uncertainty and awkwardness, and frankly, manipulation going on. I’m sure it was hard for her too, the open cookie jar drawing her in one way and all the hormones drawing her the other way. It’s not really my place to tell her to ditch the child and the baby daddy. Without dating between the two of us, no kid between she and I is going to be made, so there will never be return on reinvestment for me, therefore no investment possible or even advisable. Since the two of them have to live together to raise the child, I’d be at risk of being scammed or even blackmailed if I keep the cookie jar open.

  163. Kms2014 says:

    “That’s why I’m not supporting the ex-SB’s child accidentally fathered by someone else, despite my friendly disposition towards herself. If the child were mine, the child will be worth far more than $6mil to me by the time s/he turns 20! However, so long as the xbox-player is still in her life, there is little chance I can trust either her or the child in 20 years.”

    Wait a minute….what difference does it make if the xbox player is in her life? You even mentioned before, in regards to your baby mommas, that after you were done impregnating the women and she bore your child..and you ‘bored’ of her, I guess, and you guys were just in co-parenting stage…then, you said she could live in an expensive middle class home, paid by you, and she date/marry whomever she
    pleased…even an xbox player, yes?

  164. SunShineSD says:

    BTW, I’m not putting my life on hold per se. My other car is an European sportwagen (aka station wagon in America), and is full of kid’s stuff and assortment of building material, not suitable for first dates, especially in the sugar context. I was going to replace this one via European Delivery in the fall, but the convertible being stolen a couple weeks ago may have complicated matters quite a bit.

  165. SunShineSD says:

    oops, touched send button by mistake, continued:

    It’s called European delivery, BMW, Porsche, MB and Audi all do that. The savings are quite substantial, especially with lease: with typical 60% residuals, a 13% discount off MSRP works out to be over 30% savings over the 9 years of going through 3 cars.

    “Also, a man who has the luxury to wait for a new car does not put his life on hold because his car was stolen.”

    That’s my problem right now. I don’t have the time to wait, due to the theft loss.

  166. SunShineSD says:

    “What will stop you from using the same logic with the mother support? After all, $30,000 shaved from the mother support could mean $6 million for the child in 20 years? ;)”

    That’s why I’m not supporting the ex-SB’s child accidentally fathered by someone else, despite my friendly disposition towards herself. If the child were mine, the child will be worth far more than $6mil to me by the time s/he turns 20! However, so long as the xbox-player is still in her life, there is little chance I can trust either her or the child in 20 years.

    “If you bought a $10K used car today, the $50K saved would mean $10 extra millions. How about that?”

    Used car in the $10k range tend to take too much time for shopping/finding the right one and too much maintenance headache due to unknown history.

    “Then you sneaked in the lease aspect of the car acquisition. If the car usage is expensed out, how are you exactly “saving” $10K anyway? I did not know that you could go for European car pickup with leased cars.”

    It’s called European Delivery. BMW, Porsche, MB and

  167. Josh says:

    Hmm, interesting…

    “When you have an investment return average in 20~30+% per year, every $1000 saved now will become $40,000 ~ 200,000 in 20 years. Having that kind of high return actually makes one a tight-ass.”

    What will stop you from using the same logic with the mother support? After all, $30,000 shaved from the mother support could mean $6 million for the child in 20 years? 😉

    “if I can get the same car for $56k or even close to $51k by taking a trip to Europe in a few months instead of $60k full MSRP now, that’s close to a couple million bucks in 20 years.”

    If you bought a $10K used car today, the $50K saved would mean $10 extra millions. How about that? 😉

    Then you sneaked in the lease aspect of the car acquisition. If the car usage is expensed out, how are you exactly “saving” $10K anyway? I did not know that you could go for European car pickup with leased cars.

    Also, a man who has the luxury to wait for a new car does not put his life on hold because his car was stolen. 😉

  168. SunShineSD says:

    @Josh
    No, not Ultra High Net Worth yet, never claimed such. Merely High Net Worth, perhaps Very High Net Worth.

    Very good point on the 5 series. The same $60k 5 series would actually translate to much lower cost for getting a new one thanks to discounting off MSRP. By contrast negotiations on the 4 series convertibles is especially frustrating right now; the lease cost (for business tax write-off reasons) on a 4 series convertible is approaching that of a 7-series sedan!

  169. SunShineSD says:

    @FBSD,

    It’s a matter of principle and math. When you have an investment return average in 20~30+% per year, every $1000 saved now will become $40,000 ~ 200,000 in 20 years. Having that kind of high return actually makes one a tight-ass: if I can get the same car for $56k or even close to $51k by taking a trip to Europe in a few months instead of $60k full MSRP now, that’s close to a couple million bucks in 20 years. A whole another family can live off the difference alone by then for life! Do I sound like Oskar Schindler in his speech about the gold tip fountain pen? (“This pen, if I sold this pen, could have bought the freedom for another family!”) LOL.

  170. Josh says:

    @SunShineSD

    Didn’t you also claim that you were in ultra net worth, as in $30+ million?

  171. Josh says:

    @FatB’StardSA

    “A guy who claims he can support multiple families (at 3 times the average family income) and writes like he is a financial guru is upset about buying a $60K car to replace his old $60K car.”

    LOL! Good one. I noticed that as well. $60K is absolutely NOTHING for a luxury car. BMW 5 class is around $60K. Heck, a Ford F-150 truck costs as much. 😉

  172. Sataney Shibari says:

    @Josh,

    I suppose if a woman is willing to surrender her hair to peroxide in order to fool men she’s got more estrogen, she would also be willing to walk the line because he said so.

    Subservience. How cute.

  173. FatB'StardSA says:

    A guy who claims he can support multiple families (at 3 times the average family income) and writes like he is a financial guru is upset about buying a $60K car to replace his old $60K car.

  174. SunShineSD says:

    Not “womb renting” but helping her with the operating cost of the “immortality device” 😉 Owning one of those devices is not cheap for the keeper herself; the device gets utilized one way another all right, sooner or later, since most girls have been planning on becoming mommy since childhood. It’s only fair for us non-owners to pitch in and help her. It’s a win-win situation . . . an arrangement! that benefits all three!

  175. Josh says:

    Good luck with your womb renting pronect. I would love to hear about real happenings. Overcompensating women is one way of keeping them in line. 😉

  176. SunShineSD says:

    I was quite surprised and humbled by the responses to my stub profile. I didn’t feel right to take up their time before I have more time in a little bit, in order to treat them right from the get-go.

  177. SunShineSD says:

    @Josh
    IMHO, aside from sex itself, women behave the best during the (early) dating “honeymoon” (not the post-wedding honeymoon) and post-divorce well-maintained ex-wife phase. The latter phase actually is mature and pleasant despite not involving any sex . . . somewhat akin to Erich Fromm’s “brotherly love” if such a thing is possible between a man and a woman. Now you see why want to transform SB to GF then to well-cared-for ex-wife, shunting out the drama in between.

  178. SunShineSD says:

    “how true your observation is” referred to your surprise at my not yet having found a new SB, not the other usual stuff that seems to have the members of the fairer sex up in arms.

  179. SunShineSD says:

    @Josh,
    You have no idea how true your observation is. LOL. I took myself out of sugaring and cancelled my account for over a year after the last SB, not wanting to hurt anyone when I was hurt and emotionally drained. I only put together a stub profile in order to see euphoria’s profile only a couple weeks ago. You have no idea how enthusiastic the responses have been. I have not responded to any yet as my car was stolen that very weekend. I have been dealing with police, insurance and car shopping the last couple weeks. The damn stealers have the galls to tell me they don’t budge from over $60k MSRP just because the cars have folding roofs and it is summer! One way or another I will have the deal done in the next few days, and then I will be in much more pleasant negotiations.

  180. SunShineSD says:

    @gtt,

    My view of “true love” vs. sugar is more nuanced:

    1. “True love” has less than 10% chance of working out: over 50% marriages fail, and of the other half staying together, I’m seeing less than 1 out of 5 old couples in their 65+ being happy with each other instead of putting up with each other in quiet desperation if not outright bickering all the time, a special kind of personal hell made for each other.

    2. Despite that long shot, it’s still worthwhile to let oneself live through and enjoy episodes of “true love” so long as safety precautions are take. Life is a process; in the long run, we are all dead. Jumping out of the airplane is a thrill worth taking, provided the parachute and backup parachute are properly packed. It would be silly to take a jump out of the plane midair just because other people are jumping, without checking one’s own parachute 😉

    3. I do not draw a stark line between “true love” vs. sugaring. I intend to let myself fall in love in the sugar context, and provide golden parachute for both myself and my partner for landing, potentially over and over again, until one of the fairer sex captures my heart and keeps it, or until I turn 60+ in a couple decades, at which point I plan on retiring to dote on the kids lest I get scammed severely when I get senile.

    4. Yes, staying on the dating carousal for too long is not good, for women or men; everyone has a sell-by date, some come earlier than others, and past sell-by date makes the product bitter in taste. However, until then, enjoy the ride, be it sugaring or dating or combination of both, one blossoming into another.

  181. Josh says:

    “True love is definitely the better of the two.”

    The true life of true love is the honeymoon period in which women are on their best behavior.

    No wonder the divorce rate is 60+%. And 60+% of the remaining 40-% men are out looking for the “true love” feeling in the other, younger women. 😉

  182. Josh says:

    @SunShineSD,

    With your approach and propensity to talk women’s language, I am surprised that you are “still looking” to rent the next womb. 😉

  183. Regarding shoes…

    Most of the men Ive dated have been my height or taller so I never really considered that in choosing shoes until I started dating a shorter guy. I would only wear flats with him until one day when he suggested that heels would look great with what I was wearing. He is a gorgeous and confident guy, and had no hangups about it. He thought it was sexy-hot. Overall, though, I tend to wear flats whenever I can get away with it…as is appropriate and sexy for the attire and occasion, of course.

    I like Josh’s comment that “A graceful walker looks great whether she is barefoot, in 6 inch heel or something in between, and whether the shoes/heels were from Payless, Marshall’s or NM.”

    If you walk like Scarecrow from The Wizard of Oz when you wear heels, you should probably stick to flats. And what’s with the heel-so-high-you-can’t-bend-your-knees-when-you-walk look?

  184. @Treasured and Southern

    I appreciate the insight you’ve shared as well :).

    And kudos to you, Treasures, for finding what makes like work most soundly for you :).

  185. “Try sticking to arguments and counter arguments and refrain from name calling like an ex blogger psychopath used to. OK?”

    Fine. I won’t call you “Joshiepoo”.

    If you’re referring to “like a fugitive”, that’s a simile used metaphorically to describe your elusiveness. If, in fact, you consider that unwelcome name calling, please differentiate your statement “like an ex blogger psychopath used to.”

    I wasn’t actually expecting a response from you as I’m sure that you are aware of your own conflict…more so, I imagine, when presented to you. At any rate, Josh, my intention is in challenging you to be open to other perspectives and to parts of yourself that you’ve closed off, not just to every woman on the planet, but to yourself as well. I hope that in the least, you’re able to visit those places within your own solitude. It is from there, afterall, that you must become in tune with first.

  186. Treasured says:

    gtt – Thank you :) LOL re SBs 😀

    Dear moderators. I have changed my email address, hence a new avatar. Name stays the same :) Do stop blocking my comments 😀

  187. Treasured says:

    But, I’d say if you still can get even slightly hurt by that, not ALL of your innocence is gone :) Embrace it 😉

  188. gtt_envy says:

    @Treasured, I agree with your lifer SD’s with the same profiles for years. The same goes for the “full time” SB’s who log on each and every day just looking for the next buck.

    Glad you are out and I agree this lifestyle is a unhealthy one longterm. True love is definitely the better of the two.

    I just can’t keep my hand out of the cookie jar sometimes!! Good luck in your real life relationship may it last until the end of your days.

  189. Josh says:

    If you say so…

  190. Treasured says:

    Joshy, darling, you gotta give it to that response. I’d say, it was the best on the blog so far 😀

  191. Josh says:

    I did not know that there were a Pulitzer for word gymnastics as well. Live and learn I guess. 😉

  192. SouthernSB says:

    yougottabekiddingme-Take a bow man and collect your Pulitzer, you surely deserve it for that response. 😀

  193. Josh says:

    @yougottabekiddingme

    Try sticking to arguments and counter arguments and refrain from name calling like an ex blogger psychopath used to. OK? 😉

  194. Treasured says:

    yougottabekiddingme: Amen.

    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

  195. The princess complex is a disorder that ought be outlined in the DSM. I really hope you ladies don’t suffer from this condition.

    Joshiepoo, have you lost all innocence? Is there any hope that a glimpse of light might pierce the dark clouds that lurk over your mind imprisoning your heart? Does there exist a place where you dare to love and live unshackled from your own pessimism and inhibition? It might be in your best interest to consider relativity in applying the principles of your thesis. You live like an orderly fugitive, hiding from vulturous women, running from yourself. Doesn’t that shit get old? Some study would certainly show that such solidly held convictions decrease your life span by at least 7 years with the preceding 7 years spent lonely, miserable, bitter and regretful (integrity vs despair). And I know, poo…you’ll likely argue that at least you’ll be 50% wealthier than those suckers who bought into vagina mind-fuck forever trapped in the manipulative stronghold of the labia and forceful kegels of the cavernous prison(power of the pussy), and that you’ll not be lonely as your caged-in death bed will be surrounded by tearful, underappreciated SBs who you assume to be waiting around to syphon your dying semen for inoculation and postmortem child support.

    I’ll have you know that even greater, more damning and damaging that pussy mind fuck, is the ego and prideful shaft of a man so long, he can mind fuck himself.

  196. Treasured says:

    Emily, feet fetish is a very common one. To explain it simple, a certain area of a brain, responsible for sexual arousal in some men is close to another area (let’s say the one responsible for see/touch/feel feet or pee or “I love you to dress up as a monkey and jump wild”). At some point those two areas connect and, voila, you have a fetish 😀

  197. Well, I am responding to the topic at hand; shoes. Can someone tell me (Daddies) why men are so interested in a woman’s feet. I’ve noticed many ethnic men are really interested in feet.
    Most of the Hispanic and African-American women I’ve known were sticklers when it came to foot grooming. They seemed to think it had something to do with their sex appeal. Now, we’ve all heard about Chinese foot binding so I guess their is a millennia old preference for women with disproportionately small feet in East Asians.
    I like comfortable shoes, and I like to be stylish; too. I don’t have callouses, hang nails, nail fungus, foot odor(from what I can tell), or an overall unattractive foot appearance.
    If any Daddies are interested? This pretty lady with decent looking feet is here waiting for you.
    I hope you don’t have any foot odor or fungus.

    With love,

    Miss Emily

  198. Treasured says:

    Oh LOL!

    This one is a treasure 😀

    “Anyway, I’m a hard (and did I mention THICK) working professional guy.”

  199. Treasured says:

    Also, I just looked through the SDs on this website, and I find it hilarious, that there are some from 3 years ago STILL here and STILL claiming they are looking for “one and only special lady in their lives”.

  200. Treasured says:

    😀

    Kms, about the naughty time innocence 😀
    There is a saying: “A perfect woman is a lady in public, gourmet chef in the kitchen and a complete slut in bed”. I tend to agree 😉

    A random question (you obviously can see I am bored stiff today and just have rediscovered a perfect source of endless entertainment).
    Any vegans or people following a plant based diet here? 😀

  201. Kms2014 says:

    “. I came into terms that I can not be a complete bitch, no matter how hard I try.”

    Now, now now…don’t go being too modest–that isn’t your style 😉

    Hehe, funny 😉 I do get horrible PMS, actually, but not today. Might change my name, then. Well good
    idea! Was a joke, in that my innocence or lack there of preference, is more of a reference to naughty time 😉 Not a world view.

    Hehe, am joking too, of course ;-p

  202. Treasured says:

    Kms – Big big hug re my joke 😀 Hope no offence is taken 😀

  203. Treasured says:

    Kms (can I call you PMS in the future? :d Sorry, no offence, but that was the first thing which came up to my mind when I saw your nickname 😀 ), I have found pleasure in being somewhat naive and still just a bit innocent. I came into terms that I can not be a complete bitch, no matter how hard I try.

    When one looses all the innocence, one sees the world as a very cruel and evil place to live. And when you see your world like that, you play the games you think are needed to be played to survive. I was almost there. And I am so glad that I got away from it all just in time to be able to still see good in people.

  204. Kms2014 says:

    The heart of the bottom is very round and firm, though, in my case, lol! That reminds me of the cartoon picture. The woman is having a daydream of the heart ‘love’ and the man has daydream of ‘heart of bottom”sex’ hehe! So true (:

  205. Josh says:

    I guess Kms2014 buttons are promptly pushed. She is talking “what it is” instead of “what ought to be.” 😉

  206. SunShineSD says:

    Yup, marriage was the original arrangement. . . as in Marriage Contract. That was an enforceable contract in most nations and tribes before any business contract became enforceable.

  207. Josh says:

    @Zack

    “Josh, Treasured ought to constitute a refutation of your principal thesis.”

    Zack, to assert anything/anyone refutes any part of my thesis let alone the principle thesis you need to comprehend what I even write.

    But that is way too complicated for you. Let’s start with assessing your state of mind:

    1. Do you know what day it is?
    2. What year? 😉

  208. Josh says:

    Kms2014

    “Josh, trying to push buttons today ;)”

    That’s when people talk from the hearts of their bottoms.

    Since I have not pushed SouthernSB’s bottons yet she is writing goody two shoes stuff thus far. 😉

  209. Kms2014 says:

    Even marriages are an ‘arrangement’. It depends how you view them to begin with, in regards to your corruption potential. If you view them like an escort would, or how a ‘wife’ or ‘mistress’ would, then think it doesn’t really matter. And, who wants to be innocent? That is not fun, hehehe 😉

  210. Zack says:

    Josh, Treasured ought to constitute a refutation of your principal thesis.

  211. Treasured says:

    Sunshine, his “wattage” is powerful enough :)))

    Sugar can be fun and exciting, you just have to be self aware enough to know when to stop.(My advise to girls. With guys, over a certain age, I do not think it matters that much :D)

  212. SunShineSD says:

    Yes, dear. Good for you, Treasured. You are fine so long as he has sufficient wattage to power the magical device with you and keep you away from the sugar world for the rest of your life. You have my blessings 😉

  213. Treasured says:

    Sunshine, you are cracking me up 😀 (It is the right expression, right? 😀 )

  214. Treasured says:

    Joshy, I bet life would get just a tad more exciting for you if I were single 😀

    Nope, he is not loaded nor he is an idiot. He is wonderful and for him I left SugarWorld behind (including a wonderful Daddy, who showed me the world, and with whom I experienced things like playing with tigers, riding elephants and diving with mantas).
    Basically I just fell in love :) And set out my priorities right. I chose an ordinary, but very very happy life. And he knows about all my sins, my all good, bad and very very very ugly.

    After a while, sugar makes you corrupted. For a girl, you start to view guys only as ATMs, for a guy, you start to think all the girls are buyable. If you have been in the lifestyle long enough (with a clear understand of the rules of the game), you would know what I am talking about.

    I am glad I got out, before I have lost the last shreds of my innocence. :)

  215. SunShineSD says:

    I think someone said something earlier about accepting things are, instead of how they ought to be . . . IMHO, the high cost of operating the “immortality device” is just one of those “as things are” facts of life. Some women do selflessly try to make the operating of their device free of charge instead of picking a partner with the proper wattage, then they run out of electricity and condemn themselves and their child to generational poverty.

  216. SunShineSD says:

    @Josh

    There is no point bemoaning the cost of operating the “immortality device.” I don’t think many a keeper of the device can afford the operating cost all on her own, so a partner/sponsor is very much sought after . . . which makes you and me worthwhile, as opposed to, say, for her to keep a dog or a handyman.

    Jackie O. was quoted as saying a woman ought to get married three times in her life: once for love, once for money, and once for companionship. Of course, that was an earlier time, when marriage was the only form of arrangement socially acceptable.

  217. Kms2014 says:

    Josh, trying to push buttons today 😉

  218. Josh says:

    @Treasured

    “I’m not a princess, I don’t need saving. I’m a damn queen and I have it all handled :))”

    Well, why bother getting married then? Did you find a loaded idiot, and you are already planning about what you are going to do with your 50%? 😉

  219. Josh says:

    @Treasured

    “Josh, I am a kind of girl, who is never afraid to speak up her mind :) Just sometimes I’m capable of making an educated decision of shutting my mouth up;)”

    Of course…

    Your marriage will last for a short while. Please come back and report how you enjoyed it while it lasted. 😉

  220. Josh says:

    @SouthernSB

    “Josh, just like every girl is a princess, every boy is a prince.”

    Unless we are having a feel good conversation, this is utterly meaningless statement in the realm or male-female courtship. 😉

    “The problem is is that too many of them get ruined as they grow up. I’m talking about men as well as women.”

    Let’s stick with how the world is, not how it aught to be. The “aught to be” is one of the major problems we face anyway. Things would be humming along, and someone comes up with what aught to be, and we lose sight of WHAT IS. 😉

  221. Kms2014 says:

    “Guys AND girls! Use your fucking brains. If you met on SA and HAVE an arrangement, there is a reason for it. SHE needs cash, YOU want an above average girl (more beautiful, more understand, more accepting, more discreet).
    With feelings developing, nothing changes the reason why you got together.
    So, guys, unless you can offer alternatives, like offering her to open her own business or just marry her, keep up with the allowance. Or don’t be surprised that she has a few more lover boys on her side;)

    PS: Am I the only one who thinks, that with the feelings involved, allowance should actually get bigger? ”

    Umm, like what you have to say. And yes, I agree that allowance or ‘keeping of your mistress/SB/lover/ect. would make sense to increase over time, not decrease or even cease, due to true feelings….as time goes on, just like regular relationships, trust and loyalty are usually rewarded.

  222. SunShineSD says:

    By their fruit you will recognize them 😉 so the good old book says.

  223. Treasured says:

    Lol at fff=rent it! Must remember it :)))

    Sunshine, do tell me, how the quality of the “immortality device” is measured? 😀

    And, the more satisfied you keep your woman, the more satisfaction you will get yourself :) Well known fact 😀

  224. SunShineSD says:

    Young girls can afford to behave like princesses because they are keepers of the immortality device. LOL. Granted, not all immortality devices are of the same quality.

    As for cost, yes, for the overwhelming majority of the population, the old saying applies: if it floats, flies or fornicates, rent it! However, it is not true for everyone. For most people, car is an expense, but for someone in 1960 with enough money to buy and build out a dealership network, his passion with cars meant the start of a multi-billion-dollar business that would finance his own McLaren among many other things. For most people, housing is also an expense, but if you can plunk down for a large building, your housing expense may well become a negative number (i.e. an income source) instead.

    The key, IMHO, is finding the synergy in a relationship. A zero-sum or negative-sum relationship is not going to last long. OTOH, a positive-sum combination would have both parties willing and eager to spend more time with each other.

  225. Treasured says:

    PS: new bloggers, do excuse if I have some grammar mistakes. English is my 3rd language, out of 6. 😉

  226. Treasured says:

    Sunshine, we need more men like you 😀

    I think, if people do get married or live together, and wife doesn’t work, an allowance to her account for girly things and household management should be standard. A certain amount agreed upon and no reports needed.
    Then, a man is still in charge for the big spending, like holidays, shopping etc.
    That works perfectly for us. Plus, I also have his card with me, just in case :)))

  227. SunShineSD says:

    @Treasured

    You are not alone in thinking that; see my comment above on June 25th at 9:46pm.

    I don’t understand why some men would think “real dating” would mean stopping allowance payment. I paid my ex-wife monthly allowance even during marriage for over half a decade in a near-decade-long marriage, per advice from the marriage counselor. Turned out to the best advice ever from the counselor: made asset division during later divorce a lot easier.

  228. SouthernSB says:

    Josh, just like every girl is a princess, every boy is a prince. The problem is is that too many of them get ruined as they grow up. I’m talking about men as well as women.

  229. Treasured says:

    As to the question of “I fell in love with you and I think it’s wrong to give you an allowance bs”…

    My answer would be: “I fell in love with you, so it’s ok now to stuff myself silly with cakes and forget about shaving!”

    Guys AND girls! Use your fucking brains. If you met on SA and HAVE an arrangement, there is a reason for it. SHE needs cash, YOU want an above average girl (more beautiful, more understand, more accepting, more discreet).
    With feelings developing, nothing changes the reason why you got together.
    So, guys, unless you can offer alternatives, like offering her to open her own business or just marry her, keep up with the allowance. Or don’t be surprised that she has a few more lover boys on her side;)

    PS: Am I the only one who thinks, that with the feelings involved, allowance should actually get bigger? 😀

  230. Treasured says:

    Josh, I am a kind of girl, who is never afraid to speak up her mind :) Just sometimes I’m capable of making an educated decision of shutting my mouth up;)

    Mindfucks? Hmmm. I guess I’m just being me. More about me on this blog, sirca spring 2013. IF you are curious enough.

    As for every girl being a princess. Guess it depends.
    To describe myself, this would be more accurate:
    I’m not a princess, I don’t need saving. I’m a damn queen and I have it all handled :))

  231. Josh says:

    Feeling like princesses in itself is not a problem per se. Hoping to end up with prince charming is the problem. There aren’t enough of them to go around. 😉

  232. FatB'StardSA says:

    @flyr

    >>There are NO free women. You “pay” them with money now or money later, relinquish your >>freedom, spend a lots of time with them (taking care of chores on their behalf), sustain their >>relentless mindfucks/shit tests/whatever OR a hearty combination of the above.”

    >Josh-you need someone to love you for you and to achieve that you need to be >loveable………….

    Having a real relationship means you “pay” them with money now or money later, relinquish part of your freedom, and spend lots of time with them. Josh makes this sound like a bad thing but any moron knows this is true. Since it is beyond your understanding you must be lower down in the IQ scale, either an imbecile or an idiot.

  233. SouthernSB says:

    Oh Josh even little girls in Calcutta are princesses, it’s a title all women gets the rights to by birth.

  234. Josh says:

    A friend of mine and his wife called their daughter princess and angel. I wonder what kind of shit tests she puts her men through. LOL!

  235. Josh says:

    Only a small percentage of women are real blonds. So there needs to be a distinction between the real blonds and the improvised ones.

  236. Sataney Shibari says:

    @SunShineSD ahahaha wouldn’t Bad Credit Bob technically be “generous beyond his means”?

    And don’t lie. I know you’ve squeezed a brunette or three. I know their roots were showing.

    and yes. We are the best in bed. We’re told we’re angels since birth and we can’t wait to prove you wrong.

  237. Josh says:

    @Treasured

    “Still getting married, still happy”

    So what are your mindfucks/shit tests you use on your man? 😉

  238. Josh says:

    @42SWM

    I appreciate your comments. But you have taken the discussion into a totally different direction. 😉

  239. Kms2014 says:

    What you describe is opportunity cost and is very true…

  240. 42SWM says:

    P.S. I will no longer post from a cell phone. The persistent typos make me feel like an idiot. Have a great weekend everyone!

  241. 42SWM says:

    @Josh: You are right to say that there is a cost to everything, but that axiom applies literally to everything. We are all finite beings with finite resources Every person, activity, etc. that you invest your energies into means that there is some other person, activity, etc. that you will NOT invest your energies into.

    So sure, every sexual relationship between a man and a woman has a cost.
    So does every sibling relationship.
    So does every friendship.
    So does every friendly co-working relationship.
    So does every neighbor.
    So does every decision you make. Going to law school likely means foregoing medical school for most people. Spend the summer in Europe this summer probably means you won’t take an internship in Washington DC. Make French your second best language (after English), and you will have less time to learn Mandarin.

    Costs, costs, costs, costs, and more costs. Just another way of saying that decisions have tradeoffs and consequences.

    It is precisely the inability of even the rich to recoup the unique asset of time that makes it better to put a little extra something in everything that we do. A little extra changes the tone can change anything from rushed transaction to highlight film. Not always, but it doesn’t cost much…. and when it happens the payoff is great.

  242. Josh says:

    @Treasured

    “As to heels. To wear heels, you need to know how to work them 😉 And, by far, Louboutin’s are the most uncomfortable ever!”

    I like straight talk. 😉

    A graceful walker looks great whether she is barefoot, in 6 inch heel or something in between, and whether the shoes/heels were from Payless, Marshall’s or NM.

  243. Josh says:

    @flyR

    Say what? It’s pretty vague. I prefer clarity, if you don’t mind. 😉

  244. flyR says:

    “There are NO free women. You “pay” them with money now or money later, relinquish your freedom, spend a lots of time with them (taking care of chores on their behalf), sustain their relentless mindfucks/shit tests/whatever OR a hearty combination of the above.”

    Josh-you need someone to love you for you and to achieve that you need to be loveable………….

  245. flyR says:

    Hi Treasured …………. thanks for dropping in and sharing your future. Hopefully your sugar experience helps to build a great marriage.

  246. Treasured says:

    Hey hey gang 😀 Long time no see :) Amazed to see some “oldies” like flyR, Fatty, Emily, NC Gent and etc. How are you all guys?
    And, umm… well… Hello Josh 😉

    I am super good 😀 Still getting married, still happy and still left Sugarworld behind. Fiancee on a business tip, so I got bored and decided: why not? 😀

    As to heels. To wear heels, you need to know how to work them 😉 And, by far, Louboutin’s are the most uncomfortable ever!

  247. Josh says:

    @gtt_envy

    When a man or woman asserts that X is undesirable due to A, B or C, and those are the reason (s) why they have to pay for a woman’s attention, then it leads me to counter assert that they are either clueless how women roll OR they are lying OR they are trying to “fit in”.

    There are NO free women. You “pay” them with money now or money later, relinquish your freedom, spend a lots of time with them (taking care of chores on their behalf), sustain their relentless mindfucks/shit tests/whatever OR a hearty combination of the above.

    So it is as productive for a 30 year-old man to be playing the sugar field as it is for a 60 year-old man. Sanity is as useful for a 30 year-old man as it is for a 60 year-old man.

    The hubris that their female selection process is superior to the others in their gender pool gets the best of many men. Their fate is no better than the men’s in DirecTV commercials.

  248. NC Gent says:

    Interesting discussion… I have converted SBs to gfs and on total expenditure, it got a lot more expensive because we were seeing each other a lot more often and doing “fun” stuff. Converting an SB to a GF may save an allowance, but it may be more costly in the end, from both a financial and emotional viewpoint.

  249. FatB'StardSA says:

    @gtt_envy

    ” I think you are typical 50 year old who think “Man I still got it” when in reality you are the only one who thinks so.”

    You claim to be an in shape younger (39 years old) SD who takes his SB’s on fun dates and likes to keep in personal contact with them. You are obviously trying to convert your SB’s into GF’s. Why else would you be courting them? When the SB’s turn you down you conclude that it is not possible for anyone since you represent the creme de la creme of SA SD’s. The cycle repeats itself and reinforces your beliefs, which is why you misread Afri’s posts.

    Break the cycle. This may seem crazy to you but your SB’s could be letting you down easy by telling you that it’s not personal. You may not be as in shape or fun or interesting to text to as you believe. Take an honest look at yourself and accept your limitations. There many more charismatic and attractive 39 year olds out there, but you are somewhat successful and can compensate by giving financial support. It is nothing to be ashamed of, we all must use our strength to overcome our weakness.

  250. flyR says:

    fascinating stuff

    “One of the unusual things relatively well-off parents do for their boys in recent years is actually delaying the onset of puberty by slightly suppressing testosterone level in the early years so that when puberty finally arrives the boy will reach his full genetic potential in terms of height and other physical attributes. That’s also part of what eating carefully raised meats achieves instead of what the hormonally loaded industrial meats do to the kids.”

    More incentive to eat more of the grass fed local beef. Sadly also an incentive to choose wines more carefully

    My recollection is that long term exposure to the kiddy porn that passes as MTV also accelerates puberty . It was sad to see the kids in remote Turkish villages gathered around watching MTV via satellite in the middle of the day.

  251. Kms2014 says:

    “(so much for KMS’ apocryphal rich men who want to be dominated in private, LOL”

    Ehehe, mr. Wikipedia and now apparently mr. dictionary.com is back 😉

  252. SunShineSD says:

    @Sataney

    Following the same line of logic, I have only been with blonds, and they were all fantastic in bed, so I’m drawing the conclusion that blondes are better in bed. Tongue firmly in cheek of course. BTW, “as generous as their means would permit” is usually a short path to becoming “Bad Credit Bob.” Men don’t become Men of Means by being silly spendthrifts. Some investments are worth the risk of pushing to the limit of one’s resources, perhaps even credit limits, but many other projects are simply not worth the risk.

    @Emily

    If I were a transgender “female” looking for male patrons among a special potential pool over-represented by subjects with extraordinarily high testosterone level or extraordinarily low testosterone level so as to make the person prone to taking on homosexual partner (not in the business context but in the personal space where the usual anti-discrimination rules do not apply), I too probably would prefer the ones at the extraordinarily high testosterone level end (so much for KMS’ apocryphal rich men who want to be dominated in private, LOL). Having a big foot however does not indicate high exposure to testosterone during puberty; it’s actually the opposite: high testosterone level in early years would result in early on-set of puberty and make the boy shorter, of smaller statue and having smaller feet than his genetic potential would enable. One of the unusual things relatively well-off parents do for their boys in recent years is actually delaying the onset of puberty by slightly suppressing testosterone level in the early years so that when puberty finally arrives the boy will reach his full genetic potential in terms of height and other physical attributes. That’s also part of what eating carefully raised meats achieves instead of what the hormonally loaded industrial meats do to the kids.

    Good dental care does usually make sense as a criteria. However, for the current generation of 40-50 something year olds, visible teeth condition may not correlate to the quality of dental care itself: a special circumstance exists due to the use of tetracycline in the 1960’s through early 1970’s for kids. It was considered a wonder drug by doctors at that time (the leading 2nd generation antibiotics that started a medical revolution in the second half of 20th century) before side effects on kids became apparent: suppression of bone structure growth making the kid of smaller statue than his/her genetic potential would allow, and yellowing/staining of teeth, which is permanent for the person regardless quality of dental care or smoking habits (lack thereof).

  253. gtt_envy says:

    @FB, I think you are typical 50 year old who think “Man I still got it” when in reality you are the only one who thinks so.

    There is a reason you are on a site paying for sex with younger women. That reason is you aren’t young !!

    I choose to be a realist, but I also guarantee I’ve been in many more arrangements then you. I’m going on a date in 20 min :)

    Keep belittling,tearing down,and being negative it says more about you as a person then you will ever know.

    We see sugar differently and I think my way is better :)

    Keep being negative and being divisive it’s what you do best!!

  254. Sataney Shibari says:

    @Kms2014 as per my vibrant experience, absolutely 😉 Ladies, don’t skip out on a back day at the gym, even 8 inches will feel like nothing (get your mind out of the gutter)

    @Transgendered Emily From Massachusetts there may be truth to it because I’ve never been with a man whose feet were smaller than 10.5 and they were all as generous as their means would permit. That being said, I’m quite creeped out by small hands and feet; perhaps, it’s the way Universe protects me from Bad Credit Bob?

    While briefly studying face mapping, I retained an interesting tid bit: apparently, gentlemen with large, “meaty” earlobes are quite generous not only with their pampering but also between the sheets. Explains why Jewish men are my kryptonite.

  255. I have noticed as a Sugar Baby that you can determine a man’s generosity by his shoe size, and I’m not talking about the size of his privates.
    Very often, a man who is a big spender has a shoe size that’s at least over a size ten. Exposure to testosterone, before birth or during puberty can influence one’s sex drive. Sugar Babies, you can see whether a man’s Daddy material or not by looking at his foot size. It doesn’t say much about his anatomical endowment, but it does say something about his drive.
    I’m thirty-eight now and I’ve been doing this since I was nineteen. Look at a man’s feet(large); condition of his shoes; and make sure his teeth aren’t crappy( I call them Celtic teeth).
    I have survived this long; maybe I could have done better as a biological female. I wasn’t born one. An operation helped. Good luck to all of you!

  256. Kms2014 says:

    ” Heels are a perfect way to summon a dutiful slave or an assertive alpha figure. It may even be the same person, if you’re lucky enough.”

    Hehe, ain’t that the truth 😉

  257. Sataney Shibari says:

    “Heels are a man made invention to make a girl’s butt look smaller and to make it harder for her to run away”

    The only funny thing Amanda Bynes ever said.

    All men love heels. Stilettos demand a certain kind of attention, much like a well-tailored suit on a man. A woman in heels carries herself nonchalantly, like she’s got all the time in the world and cares to share it with no one. Fierce posture, straight neck, chin up, forward gaze. She’s the Queen and they know it. Heels are a perfect way to summon a dutiful slave or an assertive alpha figure. It may even be the same person, if you’re lucky enough.

    …..unless, of course you fancy a guitar-toting hippie who will give you a star every night. By all means, wear Toms.

  258. 42SWM says:

    @SouthernSB: I would definitely check out her profile if she lives in the midwest.

  259. SouthernSB says:

    @42SWM-Why don’t you step in and help Afri get over her SD?

  260. Josh says:

    @42SWM

    A agree with you. Live and learn.

    I post my points of view to see if anyone can substantially challenge my theses. 😉

  261. 42SWM says:

    @Josh:
    One advantage to single mom SB’s is that there is a greater likelihood of common sense expectations and an appreciation for some basic operating parameters. There is no doubt that girlfriends and SB’s with unrealistic expectations aren’t going to work out unless the man is a smooth operator or worse. In contrast, a woman used to a lot of juggling is very appreciative when you lighten the load. I am definitely NOT a smooth operator. I have been suckered by a few on this site at times. The key is to limit your exposure to de minimis quantities of time and money. Since even the scammers can teach us something, I look at a lot of things as school and investments in future story telling.

  262. Josh says:

    @FatB’StardSA

    1. The number of SBs on SA in my neck of the woods is pretty thin.

    2. I actually signed up with both SA and WYP about the same time.

    3. Simply trying out what Brandon had to offer. Who knows it could have be an bit different extension to SA.

    4. I never expected anyone to become my “free” girlfriend.

    😉

  263. Josh says:

    For the most part the only men who are able to keep women happy are ssmooth operators.

  264. Kms2014 says:

    That is true, 42….just in regards to relationships and friends have always preferred face to face, or a call. It depends on the situation as sometimes things get misconstrued in conversation over email or text. I’m old fashioned lady, though. However, with a relationship ‘gone bad’, such as a stalker or potential crazy bunny boiler,then the method of email or text is much preferred, hehe.

  265. 42SWM says:

    @Josh: For scheduling reasons alone, the failure to communicate is inexcusable unless there is a death in the family, kidnapping, etc.

    I want my SB to take reasonable measures to ensure availability. To make that happen, she needs to have a SD that is reasonably communicative. An arrangement where I just demand she drop everything and presume she is available at my convenience is an arrangement with a steep price tag, a woman who is in love and vulnerable, or a woman who lacks self respect.

    1 week of radio silence is one thing if two people have never met. For two people who spend an intense weekend together, bothering to respond in some way within 24 hours is a minimal threshold.

  266. FatB'StardSA says:

    @gtt_envy

    “Sped read right over this piece “After “slowly” rereading lol I agree with the both of you. I must have skipped this line.”

    I think you have an inferiority complex which makes you obsess about the idea that your SB’s hate being with you.

    @Josh

    “Dump him and find a bit more intelligent man who knows that sugar is far better than a “regular” relationship with a woman.””

    If that is the case then why the obsession with the “first date fraudster” on the WYP site? Why did you even bother with the WYP site in the first place if you had no intention of have a regular relationship?

  267. Kms2014 says:

    Haven’t read cosmopolitan, since 21 or 22…the cover photo looks nice, but don’t take much credence in anything written in such a shallow rag mag. However, common sense, common courtesy and cosmopolitan might overlap, sometimes, yes. Just general basic human decencies are universal and simple at times, hehe.

  268. 42SWM says:

    @Josh: Male. There are pro-male as well as pro-female aspects of chivalry. Frankly, I think that being decent person is good branding.

    @Kms2014: The challenge is that people are busy. Clients contact me electronically at all different times of day (particularly foreign clients). Nobody is immune from terse e-communications. The failure to respond is of course far worse than a terse e-communication. Something a basic as “will get back to you later” is enough to avoid being thoughtless.

    @flyR: Totally agree. I personally have ventured on different parts of the continuum. It is useful to think of it as such.

  269. flyR says:

    @42 “Your list is not made up of mutually exclusive items. Leaving someone hanging for an entire week after a magnificent weekend is either extremely thoughtless or extremely manipulative—and neither is excused by anything on your laundry list. ”

    Few things other than life or death are mutually exclusive.

    The post and others raised some great points centering around how the relationship works or does not work . The world of sugar ranges from the borderline of pure commercial to the girlfriend with benefits or mentee/mentor with benefits. Across the full spectrum there’s sugar.

    Some SB’s would make a great girlfirend or more. My experience is that (not surprisingly) older SB’s , especially single mothers are more likely to value the non monetary elements of the relationship. The younger SB may see being together as an unfortunate requirement of sugar – or she may like being in an older world.

    When feelings develop it’s touchy and my hard learned lesson is to step lightly and slowly.

  270. Josh says:

    I guess that the guy is not following the “common courtesy” defined by Cosmopolitan. 😉

    That said, the guy is an idiot. Move on.

  271. Kms2014 says:

    @42SWM very true! Is why I even hate a text or email used for any conversation better served to actual ‘face to face’ interaction. People tend to live in this virtual world and don’t give the common courtesies that once were afforded to one another–especially, in matters of the heart.

  272. Josh says:

    Blog hair-splitting is not going to achieve notin’.

    Afri should just get over it and find herself a nice SD. 😉

    @42SWM, are you a male or female?

  273. 42SWM says:

    @flyR:

    Maybe, but so what? Scared or no scared, pedestal or no pedestal, there is a baseline of consideration that one should always give. Taking 24 hours to collect your thoughts is one thing. An entire week of radio silence?

    Your list is not made up of mutually exclusive items. Leaving someone hanging for an entire week after a magnificent weekend is either extremely thoughtless or extremely manipulative—and neither is excused by anything on your laundry list.

    What is worse, being a sociopath or being so screwed up that you could be mistaken for a sociopath? Not saying either is true of the guy in question, just pointing out that adults engaging in adult activities and adult relationships should be held accountable as adults. If someone isn’t up to that standard, they should refrain.

    One of the reasons why there are so many damaged people in the world is that people don’t even give lip service anymore to treating others as you would wish to be treated.

  274. flyR says:

    We’re making a lot of assumptions about what happened to Afri with only part of the story.

    What we do know is that she liked him a lot
    They had great sex
    He retreated

    There’s a laundry list of potential reasons a couple – perhaps not the most probable:
    * She taught him to feel affection again
    He was scared
    He wanted a woman on a pedestal
    He had another irl relationship and realized that Afri and the other
    were mutually exclusive when feelings got involved
    He lied

  275. Kms2014 says:

    I dunno…have had a situation kind of similar to Afri happen to me once…the guy wasn’t avoiding me, though, and told me his thoughts, face to face, at dinner(a courtesy that is much appreciated as a man should tell you in-person or at least talk to you). In the end, it was his first ‘sugar relationship’ and said he couldn’t give an allowance anymore because he felt it ‘wrong’ and that he could continue to give gifts, but just not a set allowance. It was eating away at him and his ego, I think, as he had asked the week before to me, ‘what is in this for you…how do you really feel about us?’. I was confused to why he would ask such a thing? I was thinking, ‘isn’t it obvious, since we spoke of this months ago?’. Sometimes, the fun and excitement wears off for certain men, and the reality of what the relationship really is in certain circumstances, or what they think the ‘reality is’ can become too much for their psyche to handle….and the very ego they were initially trying to appease becomes damaged, in the end, by the question, ‘why is she really with me…does she like me for more than what I offer…would she still be with me if I ‘payed’ nothing?’ These men really are not cut out for this lifestyle, since they are looking at it from an egocentric perspective. But, that is just my opinion…

    This is just for certain men, and 42SWM could be very right in that the guy might just be a player trying to test the waters. But, regardless, he should have not treated you so coldly.

  276. 42SWM says:

    @Afri:
    In life there are lies and then there are lies. The bottom line is that the guy was disrespectful of your feelings in the extreme. At best, he is devoid of emotional empathy. At worst, he is playing you.

    Sugar relationships are not immune the emotional laws of gravity, and your guy seemed to have combined the least desirable aspects of sugar and non-sugar dating.

    You were fortunate that he slipped up earlier and definitively rather than later and in a more nuanced manner.

    Peace!

  277. Josh says:

    @Afri

    A man wanting a non-upfront-paying “relationship” with a woman is an idiot. Unfortunately he is among many men who think that their “relationship” with a woman is free of cost to them. Some pay with money. Others pay with time. Others pay with stress and health problems due to on-going mindfucks. Yet others pay with a combination of the above.

    Dump him and find a bit more intelligent man who knows that sugar is far better than a “regular” relationship with a woman.

    As far as your current feelings for him? You’re better off with current level of hurt compared to a more nuanced level of hurt in the future.

    “Good riddance” of an idiot from your life is the operative phrase here. 😉

  278. gtt_envy says:

    Sped read right over this piece “After “slowly” rereading lol I agree with the both of you. I must have skipped this line.

    ** And it’s like at this point he doesn’t have to because I like him so much but him not even addressing that with me obviously means he wouldn’t want that with me. Meaning everything he has said to me has been all lies.**

  279. Kms2014 says:

    “A week later when he finally did he didn’t apologize or acknowledge anything he just said he wanted a normal relationship, you know didn’t want to pay for anything. And it’s like at this point he doesn’t have to because I like him so much but him not even addressing that with me obviously means he wouldn’t want that with me.”

    I agree with fatbeeestard. Her post reads to me, anyways, that he said he no longer wanted to ‘pay’ her…and at this point in their relationship, she likes him so much now that him not giving her an allowance would be okay with her, and he would not have to. However, he did NOT even address that option with her, so she feels/interpreted that he did not want to explore a ‘nonpaying’ relationship with her.

    ?? Did I misunderstand, Afri? Perhaps, she can clarify but that is how I read it.

  280. gtt_envy says:

    Yes, she did FB, but still wanted a allowance hmmmmmmm. If she truly fell for him she would just date him and WANT TO BE WITH HIM regardless of allowance.

    Until she clarifies I think we just see her post differently.

    My posts comes straight from what SB’s tell me. Either they have never had a arrangement because every guy is old and full of crap. Or he was just old and fell for them wanting a relationship and not paying allowance anymore.

    Call it what you want 😉 I think it’s the guys that get sprung in this more often then not.

  281. SunShineSD says:

    LOL. I always thought that “She is connecting with me” would mean she deserves higher reward.

    Yougottabekiddingme, regarding your insightful question, which SD would be content with a life partner engaging in Sugaring or dating someone else, I do. Considering your thorough treatise on the folly of life-long monogamy for human, it was rather surprising to see the question posed with “life partner” in a singular sense. I consider every mother of my children as a life partner, in the sense that she will be eligible for life-time support and opportunity from me, as well as life-time non-aggression pact and possible alliance from me in business and personal dealings. That is, beyond the 20 or so years of co-parenting partnership.

    However, such life-time partnership in child-rearing and personal/business friendship do not at all mean life-long monogamy with each other or even necessarily sex at all after the first few years leading up to the baby being made. After the baby with me is made, I’d be happy to see her date someone else, so long as whomever she dates does not endanger my child with her or risk the well being of her household supported by me (i.e. not costing me extra as consequence of their relationship). I’d hope after associating with me and the hands-on experience of raising baby with me, she would have acquired the skills / assets to pick out a partner or partners that would be a credit to herself.

  282. FatB'StardSA says:

    @gtt_envy

    “What you talk about is common. At some point the guy forgets he is 20+ years older and starts to question. “She really likes me, She is connecting with me, I don’t need to pay for this, Maybe she will be my girlfriend?”

    Then when he says this and she isn’t receptive that ruins the arrangement.”

    You are so so obsessed with projecting your insecurities onto others that you have not even understood the post properly. She fell for him.

    Sorry for the posts. I am tired!

  283. FatB'Stard says:

    ^^^ You are so so obsessed with projecting your insecurities onto others that you have not even understood the post properly. She fell for him.

  284. FatB'Stard says:

    @gtt_envy

    “What you talk about is common. At some point the guy forgets he is 20+ years older and starts to question. “She really likes me, She is connecting with me, I don’t need to pay for this, Maybe she will be my girlfriend?”

    Then when he says this and she isn’t receptive that ruins the arrangement.”

    Your obsessed on projecting your insecurities onto others so much that you have not even understood the post properly. She fell for him.

  285. gtt_envy says:

    @Afri, I feel for you, it’s a common theme. Be happy you even met someone willing to spoil you so many girls never meet anyone just fake after fake.

    What you talk about is common. At some point the guy forgets he is 20+ years older and starts to question. “She really likes me, She is connecting with me, I don’t need to pay for this, Maybe she will be my girlfriend?”

    Then when he says this and she isn’t receptive that ruins the arrangement.

    Good luck on your search for you next guy!!

  286. fatal-femme says:

    I’m a shoeaholic myself but I have particular tastes. I’m also very into ballet shoes and pointe shoes :)

  287. KatPaw says:

    @TG Emily

    I’m luckily blessed with amazingly shaped legs with out heels.. But do love how a good set of heels makes my ass look oh so amazing! Lol

  288. Even though I am 5’9, I love very high heels. They make you look slimmer and make your legs looked toned.

  289. KatPaw says:

    Hmmm I put on heels and I tower over the average man being 5’8″ don’t get me wrong I love sexy heels but try only to sport them when seeing taller men.

  290. Kms2014 says:

    Afri…am sorry this has happened yo you but is the price you pay in these sort of relationships. Have heard several stories of the men telling women how much they enjoy their company and want to keep seeing them, or they even are falling for them…only to have him break up with her in the next few days, which would be the opposite of what they said only just a few days before. Cannot explain this flaky behaviour, since men are often the ones telling us we are the flakes, hehe 😉

    Or, he could just be testing the waters to see if you will ‘offer’ yourself, and a relationship to him without ‘paying’. To be honest, if he views what he was doing or what he had with you as ‘paying’ someone, then am not sure he is the type of man you would really want, is he? Is that what you were to him?

    On the other hand, did you tell him, during the weekend you recently spent with him, of your true feelings and how you had fallen for him? That might have scared him a little…is he a single SD or married?

  291. Afri says:

    Omg guys I just broke up with my SD of only 4 months and I fell for him. He literally ended things like an asshole like he doesn’t care. We had an amazing weekend together amazing sex and then just stopped responding to my text. A week later when he finally did he didn’t apologize or acknowledge anything he just said he wanted a normal relationship, you know didn’t want to pay for anything. And it’s like at this point he doesn’t have to because I like him so much but him not even addressing that with me obviously means he wouldn’t want that with me. Meaning everything he has said to me has been all lies. But we had the best sex I have every had and I’m so sad….and it doesn’t help that he is just like “whatever”. I really thought he was a better person. Like at least just say you want to break things off don’t ignore me like I’m worthless. I’m so hurt.

  292. Josh says:

    The most viewed article by SBs would be “How to get money without putting out.” 😉

  293. Josh says:

    The writers tend to forget what type of website it is.

  294. Kms2014 says:

    @flyer…most article topics are a bit(extremely) lame, in general, on here…hehe

  295. flyR says:

    RE “new ” SA layout

    Some improvements but my guess is that the developers worked on large screens. On a smaller screen device there’s too much white space , making the text too small. Like the random photos with location rather than playing global roulette

  296. flyR says:

    Lame topic ………… how about something like what you wish your SD knew about sex..

  297. El says:

    If a lady doesn’t know what to put on her feet then chances are….she isn’t a well cultured educated lady.

  298. Josh says:

    One of the girls I met at SA walked in high heels as if she is going to take a fall any minute. I bought her flats and insisted that she did not wear heels when with me. 😉

  299. Josh says:

    Virgin blog!

  300. Kms2014 says:

    I’m thinking many women will like this article 😉

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