7 years ago
Make the Most Out of Your First Meet

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Whether you meet your potential Sugar Daddy or Sugar Baby online, at the SA party, or somewhere outside of the Sugar bowl completely, it’s always important to have a sense of compatibility and genuine chemistry before planning an arrangement.

While it is possible to develop interest for a sugar overtime, many here have said that if there aren’t any ‘sparks’ on the first meet, it’s rare that they will develop later. Everyone has different rules for meeting potential SD’s or SB’s, but many here agree that 1st meets should be sober, at a public place, and with no obligations…

“Lamest date EVER with the sugar daddy from Saturday night. I have relearned my lesson about meeting guys while drinking.” – fabulous  anonymous sugar

Should first sugar meets be less casual than traditional first dates because of the negotiation/arrangement aspect

 

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607 Responses to “Make the Most Out of Your First Meet”

  1. Jewel Kimura says:

    this is a laugh for you from me :)

    A day without sun shine is like, you know, night. :)

  2. DearDaddy says:

    @Pishi. This is the first SD you met, right? Just chalk it up to the college of ‘sugar’ and just move on, I say. It was a learning experience that shows many people do tell white lies in real life as well as in sugar life. SO now you will be more experienced when it comes time to meet the second potential SD.
    Best of luck.

  3. SD Guru says:

    @pishi

    Please post in the current blog topic, you’ll get a lot more response there.

  4. pishi says:

    i don’t care if he doesn’t want to set up an arrangement with me, what i don’t understand is why he was trying to give me something i obviously wasn’t here for, then lie to me about it?! =/
    i don’t know what game he was trying to play but it totally turned me off..

  5. pishi says:

    Hi everyone, i am inexperienced in the sugar relationship and would like to ask you for your opinion about what recently happened with me on the site here please!
    What is it suppose to mean when i meet a genuinely rich sugardaddy, he likes me so much in the first meet, but later tell me he no longer wants to be a sugardaddy but want a girlfriend instead?
    Well he is the first guy i met, the first date was a lot of connection, but he told me he sees no difference between a sd and a bf. I was hesitant but he seemed like a really nice and good looking gentleman. I insisted that i am looking for a sugardaddy though, not a committed boyfriend, but he told me he’s a one-girl kind of guy. I didn’t bring up the benefits part of the “arrangement” because maybe i really liked him and was attracted to him too, then he said he can be my boyfriend when he slept with me. When my ex found out what i was trying to do, he got worried of me and found out so much info about that guy i thought i was dating. It turns out he’s older than he looks and claims to be, lied to me about his kids, have been involved in porn, has more than just ONE gf as he tells me. One more thing i’m sketchy about too is that he told me he went to couple of world prestigious universities(i’m not going to say the names here), but his english writing skills(being english himself) is full of typos and bad spelling. I don’t understand if it’s me doing somethign wrong here, or if i just met the wrong person. I was looking for something quite simple just a sugardaddy i like, i don’t understand why it’s not working out :(

  6. SweetJess says:

    @ Bicentennial Baby Thanks! I will update accordingly. I am open to traveling and to traveling SD’s as well.
    @ Carebear Thanks for the heads up!!!

  7. Michael AZ Alleycat says:

    New blog subject everyone. See

  8. Anna Molly says:

    Good Morning, hope everyone is having a better Monday than I am right now.

  9. Bicentennial Baby says:

    @Carebear,

    Ok, didn’t know the financial town (Charlotte) was that bad off…wow. I have friends down there that have suffered from the Wachovia failures and other economy related things but compared to Columbia SC, I would think anything is a little better off. Cola Town is a university city with the military base nearby but I am well familiar with it and the area is mostly impoverished compared to the Northeast and Midatlantic. Hopefully she’ll find a traveling SD, they seem to be the best kind and where she lives won’t be an issue.

  10. cleo says:

    photo i’m always kinda happy when people are too busy to blog!

  11. photogirl says:

    NC Gent & Cleo Thanks… I know I have not been around…busy summer but doing good :)

    NYC SB That’s nuts….but glad you got it resolved!

  12. NYC SB says:

    Photogirl – thanks… Someone flagged my site … Problem has been resolved and google is removing the warning (as well as contacting the individual who reported my site as malware)

    Pays to have google friends

  13. cleo says:

    omg photogirl *faints*

    *hugs*

  14. NC Gent says:

    Photogirl — so good to see you! * hugs *

  15. photogirl says:

    Good morning everyone!

    NYC SB – I went to read your blog this morning but I get a message that there is malware detected on your site…not sure if you are aware or not.

    Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend :)

  16. carebear says:

    Brakes! Before we lead sweet jess down the wrong path, Charlotte and Atlanta are not good places to look right now. I just moved from Charlotte to NYC because I lost my job there a year ago and immediately found one up here. I also attempted to find a sugar daddy but failed miserably for 2 weeks. Guys there think dinner buys their way through your bedroom door. Ugh. Seems like the best SD to have these days is one that is willing to pay for you to travel to see him.

  17. Bicentennial Baby says:

    SweetJess,

    I think you might need 1.) more photos (including a full body shot) and 2.) just list some of the cool things you like to do.

    I’m NOT a SD (sugarbaby side here!) but if I were interested in you, I would need more than I’m seeing to decide if to send an email. What kind of cuisine do you like most? Are you a fast Corvette kind of girl? Love NFL football? Travis Tritt? Lionel Richie? What is the coolest thing I need to know about you that you’d love a SD to help you enjoy?

    I have friends in Cola Town, the economy & unemployment down there is very difficult compared to places like DC or NYC. Have you thought about branching out to Hot-lanta or closer, Charlotte? Charlotte is a banking center and has a LOT of SD’s….just a thought!

  18. SweetJess 366291 says:

    I hate to be off topic but I have been on hear for about a year now and I do not seem to have any luck. Can you guys take a quick look at my profile and let me know it there is something I should change? I am starting to get discouraged! :(

    • SD Guru says:

      @Ladyluck

      Sound good? Genuine? I may be jumping the gun a bit but it all seems a little too good to be true

      Well, if it sounds too good to be true, then it usually is. Keep in mind you haven’t even met him in person yet. Why would he offer an allowance after only two emails? Do you know if you’ll be attracted to him and there will be chemistry? He may turn out to be legit, but I’d suggest that you take your time (see “The Five Stages of Sugar“) and do your due diligence to find out for sure. Anyone can send you a link of a business website, but does he really work there? Don’t let his offer blind your judgment and cause you to ignore common sense.

      @NYGent

      well she already emailed back and said no problem to any of it, and proposed a “per meet” range of figures.

      As usual, action will speak louder than words. She may tell you what you want to hear in the beginning to get the allowance, but then revert back to her usual routine over time. In this case, perhaps the p4p is not a bad idea in the beginning to let her prove herself in terms of reliability and availability. After you’re comfortable that she can actually do what she says then you can proceed with an allowance.

      @Full Package

      I am just on the fence because he is a nice guy who I have a great connection with…

      I’m not sure why you’re even on the fence. You should evaluate a pot SD based on the pros and cons of the situation. Based on what you wrote, the cons are: (1) “he wants someone who is more like his gf, which I can do but it is a stretch on my part”, (2) “he offered half with the option of moving upwards later.” (3) “he is a bit needier than I am used to.” And the pros are: (1) “he is a nice guy who I have a great connection with.”

      So, does the pros outweigh the cons? For argument sake let’s say he was negotiating, but even if he is willing to do better with his offer, are you willing to put up with him being needy and the possible drama that comes with being a pseudo GF? Understand what’s important to you, and the answer should become clear.

      @Michael

      My new #1 is a really cool and relaxed person, it’s going to be great.

      Congratulations! How old is she? I hope the promising start means she will be reliable and everything works out according to plan over time.

      But as they say, the ones who give you the most trouble are the ones you love most of all…

      I don’t know if they’re the ones you love most of all. I’d say the ones who give you the most trouble are the ones that create the most intense feelings. And the feelings could range from love to pain.

      @kiki

      I settled down with a sugarless musician my own age… and since that has flopped after a year

      Experience like yours is what makes us SD’s look good! :)

      Have a good week everyone!

  19. BrownEyedGal says:

    @Michael AZ SD
    Thanks for the advice….. I’ll keep that in mind definitely!

  20. NYC SB says:

    I don’t think its worth going premium… Those who favorited me emailed me as well so I didn’t get much benefit from knowing… Others who favorited me and didn’t email me were men that I wouldn’t be interested in based on their profiles

  21. BastIsisKali says:

    I think KiKi might be in the same boat as I am. Her profile is blue, so it I believe she is not “premium” and therefore cannot access the extra features such as: who favorited, viewed, etc her profile.

    Frustrating. 2 favorited me, but I cannot see who did. :(

    Is it worth the extra expense to go premium?

  22. Ivory says:

    Kiki- In the beginning I got some emails but now it is down to nothing. I actually sent emails to those that favorited me so we will see what happens. Maybe the economy effected many SD’s wallets so now the competition is fierce.

  23. carebear says:

    Kiki you’re gorgeous! I took a break from this site and rejoined and experienced a lower email volume as well. I think its the economy, and there’s a ton more girls considering this lifestyle now.

    And cleo thanks for the idea, but yeah he’s married and travels too much to catch mail. Thanks tho =\

  24. Hi Kiki – I think it looks great! Fantastic photos, great description, and you are very clear in what you are looking for. I don’t think there should be a problem in attracting some good pots.

    Have any favourited you? I would start there. Or send emails to locals who have looked at your profile. There is a lot of competition out there!

    Maybe the time of year – end of summer, back to school etc – may have something to do with lack of activity.

  25. BrownEyedGirl – each time is different. In my experience, they tend to either be really good or really not good.

    I think that the SB will have thought about the whole thing long and hard (there’s that phrase again) before committing to such a relationship, and has made herself comfortable with it. So no problem there. On the other hand, there are those who have forced themselves to get into this due to economic circumstances and really don’t like it. I have been in this situation only once, and it pretty awful experience.

    It can be a little bit uncomfortable, but approach it with lightness and a sense of humour and you will be fine. This type of relationship gives you permission to be very direct in all aspects of the relationship.

    I think that’s why most people here are focused on the chemistry and connection with their new partner. You have to like the person and have them like you, otherwise it will be a short and not very pleasant experience.

  26. kiki says:

    Hi sugars!

    I’m a little bit perplexed – I had an account her in the past, with lots of success. I was getting around a dozen new potSDs contacting me every week. I don’t know if that’s a lot, but for me that was quite the selection!

    I settled down with a sugarless musician my own age (talk about a shock, “What do you mean you want to borrow money for a new sound board?!”), and since that has flopped after a year (“Sorry sweetie, going to Brooklyn to follow my lo-fi musician dreams!”) I have made my way back to the sugar bowl.

    Except this time, no bites.
    Is it the photos? The description? I guess I am a year older now, maybe there’s a difference between 21 and 22.

    Anyone mind checking out my profile and telling me what jumps out at them? Anything I should tone down or change?

  27. cleo says:

    carebear one of the best gifts i’ve heard of was someone mailed her SD lingerie she was going to model for him at their next visit…

    the question is dependent on his marital status though

  28. carebear says:

    K I love reading this blog now.

    Question!!!

    I’m seeing my SD this week and want to bring him something as a token of my appreciation. I’m not looking to drop a grand on a nice watch when the cartier he wears is 15k, and i’m not trying to be cheesey with a card. Whats something cute that I can bring to make him smile/hold onto/remember me by?

    We both golf and I was thinking about getting him some of my ‘lucky’ balls (Prov 1 #7’s with a green 4 leaf clover on them) but I don’t have many left and can’t process the monogramming in time. But something cute and simple like that. Catch the drift?

  29. BastIsisKali says:

    Hey all. Wow, what a wonderful end to an otherwise uneventful week. I have been getting to know my birth family these last few weeks and just met the last sister yesterday. This truly has been a crazy but exciting ride.

    Great to see this blog up and running again. It just wasn’t the same without random discussions to fill my mind and pour from my fingertips. :)

    I hope everyone is well and having exceptional luck in the sugar bowl. Now…back to earl grey tea and a multi-grain bagel. mmm….breakfast of champions.

  30. katie says:

    hi everyone,im new here and just wanted to introduce myself. im katie, and im nearly 25, single mum, hope everyone is enjoying there weekend, it would be great to get to know you all xxxx

  31. BrownEyedGal says:

    Good morning sugar world. Happy birthday sugar noir. Thanks Michael AZ for your welcome. 

    I have a question…. This may be a good topic to start and will help newbie like me.

    Do you guys remember what it was like the first time you consummate your first ever arrangement? I know I’m no virgin but going to sleep with someone you hardly know…. How was it? Was it awkward?… Was it uncomfortable? Was it sizzling hot? Just wondering?

  32. Noir says:

    Good Sugar Morning Sugar Fam. Happy Sugar Birthday to myself and my exquisite sugar friend who was born on this day too.How is everyones sugar world?

    Noir

  33. cleo says:

    lily: i’m still nice and complimentary but i don’t let my feelings show nearly as fast… cards closer to my chest and heart firmly on valet. it’s like now i sit back and assess and see what and how they are instead of just going on my gut.

    hard to say but acting less interested seems to generate a lot more interest. i’ve known for a while that we don’t appreciate that which comes easily, i am finally learning to run just fast enough that they catch me :)

  34. Lily says:

    Cleo – new tricks up your sleeve? Do describe…

  35. cleo says:

    michael “But as they say, the ones who give you the most trouble are the ones you love most of all…” really? that explains my problems with dating… too nice and straight and non-game-playing

    (which i’ve changed btw)

  36. Lily says:

    Michael – yay!!

    From me, I’m really happy in the traditional dating world. Like, ‘pinch me I’m dreaming’ happy.

  37. Ivory – I would go along the lines of “Hi, read your profile with interest. I really liked blah blah blah (something specific to their profile, shows you have read it) and I am curious to learn more about you. I also saw that you ‘favorited me’ so it looks like we may have a mutual interest!”. Etc etc

  38. Ivory says:

    Thanks for the comments. I am not sure how to even start the conversation!! I am used to guys initiating so I want to set the right tone. Any good ideas?

  39. And in other news, I now have a new #1, started last night!! This is definitely going to be much less drama and aggravation, nice and low-key after the troubles with my last SB. My new #1 is a really cool and relaxed person, it’s going to be great.

    But as they say, the ones who give you the most trouble are the ones you love most of all…

  40. Michael AZ SD says:

    Hey Ivory – I would follow up with those who have favourited you, as you k ow there is interest there to begin with. The reality is that the ratio SB : SD is something like 10 : 1, so you need to take advantage of whatever you can to get ahead of the crowd. And it is a crowd. I say contact those who have favourited you. Anybody else want to comment?

  41. Michael AZ SD says:

    Welcome BrownEyedGirl!! Great to have you here. Look forward to all your questions and comments as you embark in Sugarworld.

  42. cleo says:

    nygent i second nyc sb… i’m proud and hopeful on your behalf!
    .
    package: see if he’ll meet you in the middle, if not? i think i agree with everyone else. too bad about the connection though

  43. @Ivory:
    I’m new to this stuff too, but personally, I don’t initiate contact with members who favorite me. I wouldn’t necessarily say that should be the rule for everyone, but personally I see it as setting the tone of whatever could potentially come from our contact. Anyone interested in me should know that I don’t do the chasing. In any potential relationship/arrangement, I want the man to be a man, which (to me) means him coming to me.

    So the best advice I can give is do what makes you comfortable and what feels most right to you. Good luck!

  44. Ivory says:

    Good morning everyone! I love reading everyone’s comments and have received some emails from potentials. My question is that I have a lot of premium guys that have favorited me. Do SD’s like the SB to initiate contact or do I just wait? I am a newbie so hope to hear some thoughts on this?

  45. BrownEyedGal says:

    Hi all,

    I am new to this sugar world and SA. I signed up a month ago and been busy reading all the blogs and the book. You guys are all amazing and have all amazing stories to tell. You are all so smart that it is very intimidating to even join in the conversation. However I decided to take the plunge and join in considering I am not a swimmer…..but it is good to know that there are people out there who are willing to guide me so I won’t drown.

    I am a single mom with a full time job. My priorities and commitments does not leave much time for me to have a real relationship hence the SA arrangement. I am already enjoying the finest things in life. I am single for five years now and in those five years I learned to be independent, responsible, dedicated and with little I have, learned to live within my means without having to ask for help. I gave myself five years to build a broken home and help my kids to heal. Now five years is up and ready to give myself a chance to date slowly but not ready to involve my family into this dating. As a woman….. I have wants and dreams tha I alone cannot achieve…..I want to have a taste of the finer things in life….. So here I am. in order for me to be successful in this sugar world, I am going to need all the help I can get…..from you guys. I am learning already and applying some of the tips you gave to newbies. I am still in the process of seeking. I’m not in a rush…..I am making sure I have absorbed every advise you guys provided.

    I wont ask for advise yet since my intro is turning into a novel. I just want to say hello and want to meet you all.

  46. NYC SB says:

    NY Gent – YAY! So proud of you… i hope it works out with the new pot

  47. NYC SB says:

    morning sugars… glad to see the blog up and running!

    i am off to my day of beauty… facial, massage, sauna, and a bit of a work out prior to it all

  48. NYGent says:

    Full Package: from an SD’s perspective I agree with carebear and Midwest. If you say “I’d like to but I’m afraid it’s just not up to what I was looking for,” he may well increase the offer. If this is a negotiation (and some say don’t ever negotiate), so be it. If he doesn’t increase the offer now, chances are he would never do so later, despite his hints to the contrary. good luck!

  49. Midwest SB says:

    Full Package – I agree with carebear. The fact that you are already listing things about him that are discouraging to you leads me to believe this is a compromise on your part. He will sense your lack of enthusiasm and there will be two disappointed sugars at the end of this journey. Tell him thank you, but that you will continue your search.

    NYGent – I’m excited for you. Hope all goes well!

    Reddamsel – Working on it!

  50. carebear says:

    @ Package….

    I think if you begin to ‘back down’ and say, you’re not sure if you want to do this anymore because you were expecting more but now feel like you’re cutitng yourself short and you don’t feel right about it and maybe you should just go your seperate ways…..he sounds needy enough that he may up the ante. I understand if you don’t want to kill this over negotiation, but it sounds like you’re settling and chances are you’ll be very unhappy very shortly if you negotiate beyond your boundaries.

  51. Full Package says:

    I should also say he is a bit needier than I am used to. He likes to talk on the phone regularly and even dropped in the conversation he was waiting for me to call him. I was in the middle of exams, so I was preoccupied. I can learn to deal with this, even though in my relationship experiences I haven’t tolerated it. I am used to seeing people who are as busy as I am and don’t get too obsessive about my time and attention.

    I am just on the fence because he is a nice guy who I have a great connection with…

    Thank you for constantly writing. I love to see what is going on : )

  52. Full Package says:

    Hi ladies and gentlemen : )

    I need some advice on a situation I am involved in with a potential. We have gotten as far as discussing the finer details of what type of arrangement we both want. He basically wants an exclusive arrangement since he is single. It seems to me he wants someone who is more like his gf, which I can do but it is a stretch on my part. When I told him what I expected, he offered half with the option of moving upwards later. He reminded me that he would be away often for business, and he would also be paying for any travel we did together.

    Now, the problem is I am trying not to be offended by his offer. He has been pretty detailed in what he likes and wants, down to personal grooming which is fine, but the one thing I request he doesn’t seem to want to budge in the least.

    He seems like a nice fellow, and a shrewd business man but I am kind of put off by his expectations and lack of willingness to meet mine. I think we could have a great time together, aside from the fact that I would be stepping into the role of psuedo girlfriend which isn’t really my thing. What I mean by this is that I am not a super emotional, call me every day kind of gal who needs a traditional relationship.

    Thoughts….

  53. NYGent says:

    well she already emailed back and said no problem to any of it, and proposed a “per meet” range of figures. I think because she is inexperienced in this and is going off what “friends” tell her. I gently told her that most SBs on the site shy away from p4p and prefer a lump sum allowance, even if paid bi-monthly, which I preferred too, but would leave it to her preference.

  54. NYGent says:

    Met a nice pot the other night, it is something that MIGHTwork, and we have arranged a second date. She has been pursuing it pretty aggressively. But she has been mysteriously unavailable on weekends, I suspect maybe due to a significant other, so I emailed her in advance of second date just to see if we are on same page. I suggested she review my profile again to see if what I offer financially is in her ballpark (she lists “open” so I don’t know). Told her that since I work duing week, often late, weekend availability is very important to me. And that I am not married, and when I enter an SB arrangement I do not make it a practice to see other other people, and so expect the same from the SB. (this may well be the deal breaker for her, I suspect). Told her if any of those things create a big problem for her she should let me know, maybe we can work around them, but that otherwise I thought we would make a match..

    My blog friends will be happy to know i haven’t given her any money yet, except for cab fare home on first date which is de rigeur.

    so will see . . .

  55. Reddamsel38 says:

    * completely sorry folks

    Good Evening everyone!
    Hi JSB Glad you had fun in my city. It’s a great place to just wander around have lunch and catch a show all in the same day and still leaving you to want to do more.:)

  56. Reddamsel38 says:

    Yes!! New topic coming soon.
    @Alleycat I guess there is no other way to love but completelt but that just leaves a hard fall. Makes sense?
    @Midwest I can’t open the file you sent me. I’m losing valuable information! ACK! :-

  57. FreeLikeWater says:

    Hey everyone,

    I’m an SD/SB virgin–just came across this site and blog late last night and am enjoying getting to “know” you all immensely!

    My husband just left me after 7 years and I’m not interested in meeting someone new–enough of the games, drama, lies and secrets.

    Lost my freelance writing career in the recession and am excited to explore new options. In the meantime, I’m struggling financially; hence my discovery of this site.

    I’ve had a very sheltered life and would make a great SB as I love learning and experiencing new things and places. It wouldn’t be hard to find a place or activity that would have me laughing and smiling at the novelty of it all! I’m also loving, self-entertaining (just hand me a book or my laptop!) and great at listening and making people feel good about themselves.

    I’m concerned about a few things, however. One is my body type. Every profile I’ve seen so far is of a woman who is either “slim” or “athletic.” I’m the busty babe with extra pounds to lose. I love being fit and having muscles–and yes, I’ll still be busty once the weight is gone!

    My second concern is location. I’m renting in Kitchener (about an hour from Toronto), but considering a move to Sarnia, where I grew up (on the border of Port Huron, Michigan). Whatever career move I decide to make will be similar to my writing–completely portable. I’m not a fan of winter and for the next few years would love to live as a free spirit, traveling all throughout Canada and the U.S. as I learn and explore.

    Do either of these challenges ruin my chances in the Sugar world? Is there anything I can do to make them potential assets instead of drawbacks?

    Thanks so much everyone! :)

  58. LadyLuck says:

    Hey guys and gals!

    I read this blog a lot, never really posted before though! I love all your comments an conversations and its great seeing people help each other out so much! I guess thats what real sugar is about right?
    So, I was wondering If I could steal a bit of advice from anyone who has a spare moment! I’ve just started emailing a pot SD, & the fact that I’ve never found someone who is a. Upfront about the arrangement b. In my area or willing to travel b. Not a flake. means I STILL haven’t been on a sugar date. So, I need all the advice I can get on this guy.
    In his 2nd email to me he lets me know my allowance (First month – £2,000, £3,000 after that and then credit card for travel expenses etc.). I’m happy with this – remember its pounds not dollars! – And the fact that he’s straight away upfront about it is good right?
    He also said the it will be paid automatically so even if he doesn’t make our dates (4 days a month) I get the allowance.

    He also gave me his work website (Property management/investng), which appears completly legit.

    So…just wondering on any thoughts? Sound good? Genuine? I may be jumping the gun a bit but it all seems a little too good to be true, haha, after so much time wasted on -much- harder less willing SD’s.

  59. I had a SD wanting to fly me out to NYC-pay for my room at the W hotel- then the catch comes in- “I need to see how sexual you are on our first meet”- Im like you have to be kidding me- I told him im not that type kind of girl- if he wants that why dont he does that with someone local- he gets upset and starts to insult me. Then I take the high road tell him that Im dont have time for pervs and i told him good luck for his search for a hooker!!!! What a jerk !!! but that all that seem that contacts me!! creeps!! Im very pretty but this is what Ive been experiencing since ive been on the site. Im sure things will turn around for me.

  60. Hi dolls!

    Still on my search for the “ONE” – i hear the site is get a face lift- excited as heck!!
    Also to refer back to my question from earlier in the thread ” how can i make my profile reflect that im not a P$P person” I know its hard to avoid the pervs on here. But how can I be more apealing to my type of SD?

  61. stephan says:

    Thank you so much SD Guru for informing me the comments went down! Just realized the issue; the comments automatically stop after 10 days and I guess this post has passed that mark – but everything should be back up and running now, and the new SA site upgrades will be announced/launched soon along with a fresh post. I’m sorry for any and all confusion about the comments.

    Sugar family love,
    stephan

  62. NJLady says:

    Afternoon Sugar’s,

    It looks like I might be comeing back….I don’t yet…..I was here last year, had a bad experience. I want to find a SD, however I have my doubts with this site. Where else can one go to meet a pot SD besides websites. I would appreciate anyone’s advice…SB’s or SD’s.

    Thanks

    • SD Guru says:

      I contacted Stephan to let him know that we’re not able to post in the blog. He said sa.com is undergoing some upgrades and should be finished by this morning. At that time he will make an announcement and post a new blog topic and we can resume posting.

  63. James.m says:

    I’m Last! I’m Last!!

  64. Yaz says:

    Haha no I won’t stand a chance against Michael AZ :)

  65. Bicentennial Baby says:

    Aw Yaz, you just wanna be 1st… :)

  66. Yaz says:

    I agree with everybody else….New topic! :)

  67. Yaz says:

    SD Guru said

    “Likewise, I’d suggest SB’s to look at a SD’s listed income/net worth with a grain of salt. Some SD’s purposely under state it because they don’t want pot SB’s to have unrealistic expectations. Some SD’s purposely over state it to attract SB’s that they otherwise wouldn’t be able to.

    Here is one of the most counter intuitive lessons for SB’s to learn. That is, a SD’s wealth, income, and lifestyle does not directly relate to how generous and how willing he is to provide an allowance. He has to be able and willing to do so. Some wealthy men are willing to spend lots of money on fine dining, travel, and gifts because they think sharing a piece of their lifestyle is enough. But when it comes to providing direct financial support they think there is a stigma associated with it as if they’re too good to be “paying” for a SB. ”

    My thoughts, exactly! I couldn’t have said it better! Higher income DOES NOT always mean that the SB will receive a high allowance.

  68. Bicentennial Baby says:

    We do need a new blog topic, maybe about allowance vs. gifts and overall expectations. I’m new at this too.

    I’m getting all kinds of inquiries, and it’s hard to sort through them because the ones that start off really well soon jump to one paragraph emails that are scaring me a little. One ex: fabulously sweet guy emails me 3 diff times on SA, I reply, we exchange tasteful pics and then next thing I know he’s sending an underwear shot. Now mind you, he’s definitely in good shape for his age…BUT…I want to go to events, do fun things to make enjoyable memories/experiences together and *then* once in the arrangement, let’s go do some indoor sports if the mood strikes us both. The email was pretty much come over for dinner and can you stay the night?

    I haven’t even MET this person, he knows nothing about me but my profile. BTW his net worth is in the 10’s of millions as he provided his real name. I’m so disappointed that someone worth so much could neglect the basic manners of speaking with a pot SB. *sigh*

    Another one I like but then when I was trying to schedule the meet around my DD’s cheerleading replied something to the effect of “oooh, you’re a MILF? that’s even better…”. I don’t know if I’m flattered or if I threw up in my mouth a little bit. Should I just back out of meeting when exchnages are like this already? I’m interested in a regular 6mos to year arrangement.

    @Midwest,
    I really like the gentleman in question & will take your advice. I think he & I will click. He offered a very generous gift up front at the meet and I feel kinda bad about it (the meet is the day before my birthday). I politely declined and he said it was just being generous. I replied let’s meet and see if he still feels as generous and if we click as I’m pretty sure we will, I would accept the gift with thanks and schedule a second meet if we both want an arrangement. This one I really don’t want to poof, he is funny and able to send full paragraphs in emails. So if he’d be ok with waiting until the 2nd meeting, I think he’d find success if all goes well. I hope to express that in a nice way at the meet.

    @Chocolate Barbie,
    I’m Bicentennial Barbie in my profile, you get the same crappy p2p offers white or black my friend. Anytime you look like a doll, some people are going to just want to “play with you” rather than get to know you. Frustrating as hell if you unfortunately happen to be smart too.

    @BastIsisKali,
    You can email me girlfriend for workout motivation. I lost 20lbs in 3 months preparing for the sugar world and won a major pageant afterwards. I’m 5’7″, 108# and a size 2. I’m in the gym myself and have had to drop weight so I understand. bicentennialsugarbaby at the yahoo place if you want to chat! Same for you Cleo, you’re a trip. :)

  69. Michael AZ SD says:

    @JSB. 😉

  70. SweetSugar says:

    I agree with negotiation with a pot SD that went over well. In every case they tended to be tire kickers. And in every case they were 750,000 a year or below. All wanted $100-$300 “per meeting.” No going out together, no spending time together, didn’t even ask if you had mutual hobbies. They all wanted straight up whores.

  71. JSB says:

    Morning all!!

    I am finally catching up after an amazing trip to NYC. Had a fab time with my sd and meet a fellow sugar sister!!

    Michael – you want a new topic so you can post first don’t you? Lol

    I do agree there should be a new topic though and I am enjoying the banter on here re: love, money, income

    Off to lunch now.

  72. I found this website a weeks ago, no luck with any normal SD- Im looking for chemistry among everything. I ll ask a few questions that find out on the blog that can help me identify if he real or not if communication could go further, they run around the question then I get “how are you in bed”- Im like WTF, You couldn’t even answer ONE question to make sure neither of our time is being wasted.

    Sorry guys i had to rant a little, just starting to lose faith in the website.

    Are there any ken dolls out there for a Chocolate Barbie?

  73. Why do white SD when they look a SB outside there race they only want a light skinned AA- and when they approach a chocolate coated barbie like me they looking for P4P? I dont get it maybe i keep attracting pervs that think Im naive. But this is not my 1st rodeo.

  74. BrownSugar says:

    I was thinking the same thing myself! Actually I’d think they’d have a discussion board instead….apparently sugar people like to talk!!

  75. Michael AZ SD says:

    Blog Gods – really? 10 days and 556 comments? Time for a new subject…. please!

  76. BrownSugar says:

    typo: I AM naive in thinking this is common.

  77. BrownSugar says:

    @ Looking for an investor

    Thats sad! My last SD was awesome … he always wanted to put me in touch with ppl/make suggestions/invest in me and what I needed to do. I dont know, maybe I is naive in thinking its common?

  78. cleo says:

    SDGuru: absolutely it can… but when negotiating turns into fighting or starts getting negative is more what i mean. i’ve certainly negotiated with an SD before but implicit in that discussion was good faith between us.

    so when he said ‘this is my maximum but it’s sustainable’ i believed him. the world got in our way or we would be happily sailing along now.

    re travel: anything that’s more than one stopover away gets exhausting fast.
    .
    BastIsisKali: truly? and there is no way for me to say this and not sound like a bitch but please don’t take it that way. i am already the workout buddy of about 20 clients a week that i cajole and encourage and otherwise help get on track. for this they pay me and for that i give them everything i have every hour that i see them.

    i am happy to give advice and talk about my experiences but you need to find a non professional for this kind of motivation. you want a workout buddy not a professional pilates instructor… at least that’s my read.

    how about it ladies, anyone working to get in shape want to partner up with bastisiskali?

  79. NC Gent says:

    One more comment regarding distance… even though I clearly state that I am looking for an out-of-town SB and for someone who can travel, the percentage of positive responses is definitely dependent upon distance from me — the closer they are the more likely I will get a positive response. In fact, it appears to be the most important factor.

  80. NC Gent says:

    I agree it is an interesting discussion on income. I under report my income, but to be honest, I am not sure what income to report… is it EBITDA? AGI? Cash flow? Net worth delta? (sorry for all these accounting terms), but those numbers vary widely. I put down an income that reflects that I can afford an SB, but I definitely think it isn’t accurate. In all actuality though, the allowance I can afford isn’t that much related to my income. It is more a factor of what I can hide from my accountant and roommate (aka wife). If I was single, my potential allowance would be a lot more. This has probably narrowed my options, but the good part is that I have always had SBs that truly liked me because my allowance wasn’t that grand. I do provide great travel opportunities and experiences, which I think somewhat makes up for it, but ultimately, the SBs are the judge of that.

  81. SouthernGent2 says:

    Interesting discussions from yesterday I see. When I could be more regular with this lifestyle, I had a set amount I would go per month. When I see a sb asking for over 10k per month, will not bother to contact her. Personally I think anyone asking for over 10k per month is living in a dream world.

    My personal preference is to message the 1-3k classification, or the negotiatble classification. If I see someone in the classes above that I am attracted to, or interests me, I will send a message, but in the message make it very clear what I can or cannot do. I have found that 75% of the time I will get a positive response by taking this approach. So that tells me that many sb’s are just throwing a number out there, and thus willing to negotiate from there.

    My pet peeve is when a girl says “I am worth this much”. That is a big turnoff. Recently I had made plans to meet someone, and we even agreed to general numbers by email and text. And then two days before meeting, she starts this thing of “well, i know we talked about that, but after thinking about, I think I am really worth a lot more”. Needless to say, that conversation ended fast, and there was no meeting.

  82. NYC SB says:

    Looking for an investor – interesting… I have had the opposite experience… Most of my pots were all to excited to invest in me and introduce me to the right people. Maybe you are going about it the wrong way?

  83. Alice says:

    I certainly agree with the “be sober” statement for a first meeting. Suffered one bad experience there, will never happen again.

  84. Well i may regret the fact i ve been honist all the time.

    as i was looking for a mentor or investor, it seemed not to be that interesting to most SD s, I do find this rather silly to be honest.

    As most SD s seem to be more interested in paying monthly alowances to a penson sitting in front of the tv whole day awaiting for the next paycheck. instead of encouraging someone to go out, work, invest and become succesfull. Its a gift being with someone succesfull so get the most out of it instead of being only interested in money.

    the world upside down if you ask me

    with regards

  85. BrownSugar says:

    @BastIsisKali

    What is a SM? Just trying to get my arms around all the lingo as a newbie!

    • SD Guru says:

      It’s an interesting topic regarding SD’s income/wealth and SB’s expected allowance as listed in their profiles. I see a lot of good discussion already and here are my two cents.

      @NYGent
      for some SDs looking for out of town/travel SBs, e.g., NC Gent, location is not that important

      In that case location is not as important but it’s still a factor. Even with an out of town/travel SB, the reality of travel (time, distance, delays, etc) means the SD should look in a particular part of the country to make the logistics more manageable. It’s easy for a SD to think a pot SB is only a flight away and therefore he can search all over the country. But in practice he will have a higher probability of success by focusing on a specific region.

      @NC Gent
      I really haven’t noticed that much of a difference in SBs seeking $1-$3k per month vs the higher amounts, with the exception being in the large, high cost-of-living cities

      This is one of the most counter intuitive lessons for SD’s to learn. That is, the amount of allowance may not be directly related to the quality of relationship/experience. Paying more can usually get you younger and hotter arm candy, but there is no guarantee for a better experience. For example, would you have more chemistry with a SB because she is asking for a higher allowance? Or, would a SB asking for a higher allowance be more reliable?

      @NY Gent
      Generally I wouldn’t contact anyone at $10k+, unless I get the sense they just sort of threw a big number out there without any real thought.
      @NC Gent
      In fact, I don’t even search outside my budget range. SBs — would you even consider an SD below your budget range?

      I usually look at whatever is listed for expected allowance in SB profiles with a grain of salt. There are SB’s who consider the amount of allowance as their most important criteria and therefore will not be flexible. And there are SB’s who consider the amount of allowance along with other factors and are willing to be flexible. Then there are SB’s who purposely put a large amount to weed out the undesirables but are willing to consider less. You won’t know what type you’re dealing with until you contact them. Once you figure out what you’re dealing with then you can proceed accordingly.

      @Yaz
      I do look at the income listed but rarely believe that it is the guy’s ACTUAL income.

      @Sherri
      It’s hard to tell who’s generous and who’s not based on income alone, though.

      Likewise, I’d suggest SB’s to look at a SD’s listed income/net worth with a grain of salt. Some SD’s purposely under state it because they don’t want pot SB’s to have unrealistic expectations. Some SD’s purposely over state it to attract SB’s that they otherwise wouldn’t be able to.

      Here is one of the most counter intuitive lessons for SB’s to learn. That is, a SD’s wealth, income, and lifestyle does not directly relate to how generous and how willing he is to provide an allowance. He has to be able and willing to do so. Some wealthy men are willing to spend lots of money on fine dining, travel, and gifts because they think sharing a piece of their lifestyle is enough. But when it comes to providing direct financial support they think there is a stigma associated with it as if they’re too good to be “paying” for a SB.

      @Michael
      So I now have a new SB #2 and my #2 is now #3.

      How does your former SB #2 feel about being #3 now? Is that what she wanted because she introduced you to the new #2?

      @Carebear
      Oh, and I hate the idea of ‘negotiating’…..a lady should never have to ‘negotiate’…..she should be respected.
      @Cleo
      if i have to fight you rather than believe that you are offering me the best and most reasonable arrangement you can? you aren’t my SD anyway.

      A negotiation can be an open and honest discussion between two parties who respect each other. It doesn’t have to be adversarial and become a fight. As the saying goes, in life you don’t get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

  86. BastIsisKali says:

    OT question

    I have done a few searches for SM’s and have noticed something…there is a significant number of SM’s who are actually males. How do I know? Well, their profile ID’s are ‘steve’ or ‘uncle love’ or ‘marvin’.

    Is there a way to report these profiles? Or do we just rely upon common sense to weed them out of the pool?

  87. BastIsisKali says:

    @Cleo

    you guys are amazing, such a beautiful and freely shared wealth of knowledge.

    Agreed. I thoroughly enjoy perusing this blog for new tidbits to blossom in my mind.

    btw Cleo….speaking of getting body/mind on track…I could use a yoga and/or workout buddy…care to join me in email motivation?

  88. Midwest SB says:

    Gracious! I didn’t catch up on everything, but wanted to put something out there….

    BB – If you think just because a guy flies out to see you, that you should have sex with him or you might lose him, then is he worth pursuing?

    Don’t string a LD SD out for a long time, but don’t feel bad if you don’t consummate the arrangement on the first meet. A genuine SD appreciates that it’s a “get to know you” meet and that safety is a priority. You set the right expectations and he will not only be happy to come to your town to meet, he will do it a second time! If he doesn’t, don’t sweat it sweetheart. Have it in your head that it’s worth it to him to spend some quality time with you, but balance that with “he’s lucky to have me”. Again, the sex should be because you want to and not because he expects you to. Say this over and over until it sticks!

    Goodnight sugars!

  89. cleo says:

    by the way i really really want to thank those of you who commented on my love vs money question. there was a ton of really great food for thought there and i appreciated every single bit of it.

    you guys are amazing, such a beautiful and freely shared wealth of knowledge.

    really, thanks.

    (and thanks too for the inspiration to get my life on track, my body back and to tidy up my own head first – but you know about that)

  90. NYGent says:

    This is an SB/SD site but there is a difference between SBs seeking assistance and a nice lifestyle, with chemistry, and pure golddiggers to whom chemistry and mutual attraction is virtually irrelevant. It’s the latter group that some SDs try to avoid by understating their income somewhat. I am honest about income, which is most relevant to ability/willingness to pay an allowance (what most SBs are interested in), but I do fudge downward a bit on net worth cuz I figure it’s no one’s business.

    If an SD truthfully makes less than 250K a year he is going to have trouble supporting almost any SB, at least one seeking more than a minimal allowance. 250K income with taxes means about $140K after tax, and disposable income (after normal living expenses) of maybe 30K at best per year, at least in NYC. Even if every penny of that is spent on an SB (and few SDs would be willing to do that), it wouldn’t even come to 2K a month, which ain’t enough to attract NYC SBs (or NYC SB!) So I can see why SBs (in NYC or other big cities) would be skeptical of an SD listing under 500K income — they’d better hope he’s lowballing his icome!

  91. cleo says:

    carebear: i don’t ask for raises for me, i ask for raises for my staff. it’s my boss’ job to ask for raises for ME. same in the sugar world; if i have to fight you rather than believe that you are offering me the best and most reasonable arrangement you can?

    you aren’t my SD anyway.

    will i get taken in for trusting? maybe… but i’d still do it my way every time because trust and respect matter to me.

  92. carebear says:

    Oh, and I hate the idea of ‘negotiating’…..a lady should never have to ‘negotiate’…..she should be respected. But I’m old-fashioned. =)

  93. carebear says:

    I would think most of the $ numbers under income are incorrect. I never pay attention to that. My current sd put under 100k, but if he were to continue on our pattern, he would break that in gifts to me, so obviously its untrue. And as far as defining ‘worth’, you’re only as good as you think you are. If you think you deserve $200/night then maybe thats your range. Personally, I save or invest 1/3 of anything I take in (between my job and an extras I may accumulate) and then spend 1/3 on bills and 1/3 on extras. Simple formula. I figure if I’m going to put myself out there, it better be worth it, so my range is more (almost double) my natural income from my job. Is there another formula out there that everyone else is working off of?

  94. SoftlySearching says:

    Major lurker here 😀 I don’t post often because it takes me too long to get to the bottom of the blog…lol…. but just wanted to pipe in, I always consider pots in a lower allowance brackets. If his email catches my attention, so does he… :)

  95. Yaz says:

    Dandelion~ Lol I got the point you were trying to make :)

  96. Dandelion Wine says:

    Yaz, well obviously high income does not make a candidate great if he is in it for (meow)-slaying. If he isn’t, then the amount of girls throwing themselves at him wouldn’t matter, especially if you are able to differentiate yourself from the crowd, as he is looking for specific qualities that you either have or you don’t. Also, you aren’t “proving” to him that you are a great fit for him, you are also interviewing him to see if he is a great fit for you. Best companies offer the best candidates competitive packages (because best candidates have a pick among several best companies), and best companies tend to not care about the thousand of people that would have been happy to work for half of the competitive package or even just for the experience…i don’t know if it’s a clear analogy lol

  97. NYC SB says:

    Alleycat – yes I understand that but in ur profile u also list a range of what u can provide (not that this is always accurate) if that matches to my expectations than I can focus on getting to know u and seeing if we are a match. For me when a man lists 100k to 200k I wonder what can he provide for me (my salary is in the 6 figure range as well) … I just don’t see the point in getting to know someone whom with that range can realistically provide maybe 1k per month … He could be lying about his income sure but in a pool of better liars I’d rather waste my time elsewhere 😉

  98. Noledgeseeker says:

    Not caught up here.

    Update on me:
    Meet local SD for first arrangement meet… Eh.

    Trying to go to Boston again this weekend. We are trying to work things out and I really hope it works. I like him so much. We haven’t even met yet. We’re going to see Tom Petty and spend a lot of time at the hotel. Well thats the plan anyway.

    xoxo sugars.

    ~me

  99. Yaz says:

    Please forgive the typos

  100. Yaz says:

    Dandelion~ Great point.

    It is just my approach and the way I view things. I also like to keep in mind that the “top candidates” usually have hundreds and hundreds of girls throwing themselves at them. Isn’t it also time consuming to try to prove to them that you are the perfect SB? And when you do get an arrangement with one of them don’t you think that the question “Is she just in for the money?” does not linger in the back of his mind?

    Sometimes going after what you would consider a great candidate can also bring a very low rate of return. If the guy turns out to be cheap or not the so called millionaire he claimed to be ( Remember they are a lot of paper millionaires out there) what do you do?

  101. Dandelion Wine says:

    I am not saying you should consider someone who wants to give you $200 per meeting but you shouldn’t immediately disqualify someone with a low income until you can actually verify that he can’t possibly offer you what you are seeking.
    ———
    Yaz yeah, but why bother?
    Why waste time inspecting every frog for the signs that he might be a prince and spread yourself thin (and most likely not recognize a highly probable match with such a standardized approach) when you could just concentrate your efforts on the top candidates?
    I’m not saying that you shouldn’t consider someone who *obviously* seems perfect in every way except for the income, and makes himself easy to consider (i.e. prompt, polite, considerate himself, interesting, *makes a good case for why you should consider him: whether it is shared love of jersey shore or Metropolitan Opera*), and I am also not saying that just because a guy has money, he can’t be boorish and/or boring BUT checking out people to see if they *might* be different from what they claim frankly seems like an investment of time with a very very low ROR

  102. Yaz says:

    Lol….BastIsisKali…..I rarely take anything online especially on dating sites as being 100% true.
    More often than not, people lie about age, weight, marital status or income….Should we blame them? Nope. It’s the internet after all…It is ok to not mention a few things about yourself in order to attract the type of people you want to attract. To me, it is ok to say you are 26 when in reality you are 29 ( Hell, who cares! Some 30 something women I know put younger women to shame in the looks dept)
    I just use the “What you see if what you get” formula. Much easier.

  103. BastIsisKali says:

    @Yaz

    What!?! People are not 100% truthful online! The nice, happy world in my mind has just been shattered. :(

    Looks like a busy day on here…I have a lot of reading to catch up on.

    If anyone was wondering, JD (kitteh) is going to be okay. He will just have to take a pill twice a day. Poor baby…

  104. Re income – I really don’t list my income accurately. To be honest, I don’t even know myself how much I earn year to year until the following year. For example this year am not working, but I think my income will be the highest it has been for many years. I am more concerned about how muxh tax i pay (or not). Sexondly I would worry about someone focusing onthe $ rather than on me. Once I totally trust someone then can discuss but really it is irrelevant. If I can pay the allowance, provide nice travel and occasional gifts, who cares if I have zero income (as i do now) or $500k. NYC SB you are an accountant, you understand all this.

  105. Yaz says:

    Lol Michael good for you….You surely will never have a shortage of SBs 😉

  106. And in other news… great fun today!! My SB #2 set me up with one her friends today, great time. Hung out at RitzCarlton poolside, ate, swam, drank, fun. So I now gave a new SB #2 and my #2 is now #3.

    Still interviewing for #1 position

  107. Yaz says:

    I am not saying you should consider someone who wants to give you $200 per meeting but you shouldn’t immediately disqualify someone with a low income until you can actually verify that he can’t possibly offer you what you are seeking.
    Also, not all SDs who list high income actually do make that much money. Some just list themselves as millionaires just to get as many girls as they can. And some of those so called millionaires can also be extremely cheap. So, not all that glitters is…well you know :)

  108. @Reddamsel38 “You must be a person that loves completely?”

    Yes – truly, madly, deeply, always. Is there any other way?

  109. Yaz says:

    You do have to put yourself in their shoes tho…I would hate someone who is all over me and willing to meet me just because my income states $500K+. To me it doesnt matter if this is seeking millionaire or match dot com. I would do the same if I was a SD. Be willing to meet me because you are actually attracted to ME and willing to consider an arrangement with an allowance below what you are seeking and once I tell you what I REALLY make then you will like me even more! :)

    Think of NYGent’s case, his generosity is the reason why some SBs see him as a walking ATM. ( Sorry to use you as an example NYGent..;))

  110. Yaz says:

    NYCSB~ They usually tell you their actual income once you guys are in the “get to know each other” process. That’s what happened with my first SD.

  111. Reddamsel38 says:

    @Alleycat Thank you for sharing that. So Love is by all means an experience to cherish. I say the same thing about money it comes and goes but so does love so when it comes accept it for what it is. But when it turns and gets twisted…….. don’t want to get doom and gloomy, so I’ll leave it at that.
    You must be a person that loves completely?
    @ midwest I’ll mail you.

  112. NYC SB says:

    Oh come on ladies! Discounting what you make to weed out gold diggers? Last time I checked this site is seeking arrangement and not match… If u are uncomfortable listing your income at the very least say so… Just like men disqualify me for not being a blonde with double ds it is within my right to disqualify a man making low six figures…

  113. Yaz says:

    Oh by the way there is nothing wrong with shopping at Target. I meant his style was not on the flashy, expensive, I-shop-at-high-end-mens-clothing-stores side. You get my point :)

    Off to the gym! :)

  114. Yaz says:

    It also happens on traditional dating sites. Some girls will not give a guy the time of the day if his income is not in a certain range. All I can say is you never know who is looking for love, a SB or whatever online. I have talked to many wealthy guys on traditional dating sites and many of them always downplay their income or profession.
    A year and half ago I met a SD from this site worth millions and millions of dollars and I was shocked at how he looked in real life. He was the most humble guy I had ever met and he was dressed like he shopped at Target.
    Just to say, that it is often good not to judge a book by its cover. On this site, it is ALWAYS good not to judge a SD by his income level. :)

  115. Bicentennial Baby says:

    @Yaz,

    One of the gentlemen I am speaking with did the SAME exact thing! Actually 2 have thinking about it. One has 3 homes and twice what he claims. The other is a multi, multi millionaire when I Googled. Not really a factor in my mind because I’m evaluting based on chemistry and politeness of emails (one of the 2 is a little too forward IMHO) but interestingly enough the other lovely man said he didn’t want SB’s who wanted him just for his money. I can totally appreciate that, I didn’t even have a clue what he had listed, just that he had an orange profile, and he said I was the first one who couldn’t tell him what she saw he made or even did for a living off the top of her head.

    No, I can’t, but I will remember your favorite ice cream flavor and football team..

  116. Yaz says:

    Sorry for the typos, I hate blogging on my phone!!

  117. Yaz says:

    Personally, if I was a millionaire, I would list my income way below what I actually make. It would be easy for me to weed out the gold diggers.

  118. Yaz says:

    Re: SDs income?

    I do look at the income listed but rarely believe that it is the guy’s ACTUAL income. My first SD listed his income in the 100k range. His profile was very brief and he did not even list his profession. It is only a few weeks after we started talking that he told me his real income which is 1Million+. I was shocked but I found his approach very interesting. He stated that very few SBs replied to his emails and he had a feeling it was because they only looked at his income. He stated that, unlike most of the other girls he contacted, my first question was not “How will you be able to support me as a SB with your current income?”

  119. Sherri says:

    Some SDs also downplay their income. For one pot, I googled him and stumbled on an interview with where the interviewer mention his income and it was much more than he had listed.

  120. cleo says:

    BB: i ignore income because several blog SD’s have commented that their actual income is their and their accountant’s business and no one else… and i, for one, totally respect that opinion

  121. Bicentennial Baby says:

    I feel dumb.

    I haven’t even LOOKED at the annual income/net worth of those contacting me that I’m in the “getting to know” stages. My one pot SD meet already setup provided his real name and checks out 100%. We click and I’m not getting weird emails, just fun conversation until we meet. Got the awkwardness out of the way during the phone chat I think. I genuinely like him so I think it will be a positive meet regardless of outcome.

    I figured SD’s are capable of lying and really, the validity of their net income is about as useful as them knowing my exact birthdate. Why does it matter? Either I’m in your allowance range or I’m not. It’s none of my business whether my allowance is 100% or 1% of your disposable income after bills. same with age. I couldn’t care less. I would hope they don’t either, simply because I want to be seen for how well I look and the maturity I have…not whether or not I can compete with a hot 22 year old. I’ve gotten away with as young as 26 on what I’ve told people my age is and never been questioned. (I’m in my 30’s though).

    My theory is if you can keep up your end of what the other person expects (i.e. attractive and what the SD thinks he’s getting in photos, or IRL even better! I don’t use modeling shots for that exact reason, I don’t want to compete with Airbrushed Bicentennial Baby…and for the SB, able to treat her like a lady and not balk at what she’s comfortable with as mutually beneficial gifts and time together), then all the rest doesn’t really matter a hill of beans in an NSA situation.

    Now if you’re dating, I am sure all that could change, but that is a side of the coin I don’t know anything about.

    Relative to the hot guy discount, no such thing here. Got a seriously hot guy at home. I’ve been judged all my life on my looks in modeling, etc and I know how bad it sucks, so I cut the guys a little slack there. However I do prefer a gentleman with kindness, generosity and sense of humor. That wins points. :)

  122. Sherri says:

    I think it also depends where you are in the range you put down. An SB who puts 3-5K but is open to the lower end might take $2500 whereas one who was hoping for $4500 might not.

  123. Sherri says:

    NYC’s blog seems to have some kind of malware, but the idea makes sense.

  124. NYGent says:

    Re: SDs below the SB’s budget range — see NYC SB’s blogs on “hot guy discount.”

  125. Sherri says:

    @NC Gent – I did for one SD, but he’s very much the type of guy I’m attracted to irl. He also seems sincere in what he can offer (i.e. no low-balling vibe) and said has and can be consistent over a long period of time as long as I hold up my end and we continue to get along. We’re not exclusive, though.

    @SweetSugar – I’ve met some of those men, too! It’s hard to tell who’s generous and who’s not based on income alone, though.

  126. NC Gent says:

    Sweetsugar — $100 to $200 per time is insulting an laughable to me, but then again, I am not a p4p kind of SD. I usually only see an SB one to two times a month, so that usually requires me to look in the $1k – $3k range our amount negotiable. I really never considered contacting someone in the $3k+ range, but maybe if I said only 1-2 times a month they might consider.

  127. SweetSugar says:

    NC gent,
    I have considered many pot SDs below what I would normally go for, but in all cases they realized they could not afford it/weren’t willing to provide it. All of them wanted to “occasionally” help out as they felt was necessary. Like $100 to $200 a time. And these were from men making 400,000-750,000 a year.

    I have never responded to anyone making below $400,000 a year having the knowledge of what most $400,000 to $750,000 men are willing to provide. And 99% of pot SDs that have contacted me have been below $400,000.

  128. Beach_Girl says:

    Hello Sugars!

    Cleo~ As always, You are an amazing Women! You totally Rock… Love ya 😀

    Hope everyone has a wonderful day!

  129. Bicentennial Baby says:

    @NC Gent,

    I am glad to read what you are saying because I have secretly wondered what makes another SB worth 3-5 or 10-15 and I am being objective being fairly new at 2-3?

    Whatever it is that gives a girl that edge to be in the higher category, I want to learn and know what it is! I have the basics (great body, great personality, intelligence, well traveled) so to my mind, it should be attainable, unless it’s just the fact you’re paying for someone to be 21 or 24 as opposed to 34 or even 44 or whatever the SB’s age is.

    To the SD’s, what makes a SB worth more in allowance?

  130. NC Gent says:

    interesting NYG — I have never contacted someone above my budget range, because I figured it would go nowhere. In fact, I don’t even search outside my budget range. SBs — would you even consider an SD below your budget range? Just curious…

  131. cleo says:

    dandelion wine: funny i was healing my men long before i was in a healing profession. and that’s kind of exactly where i’m at with it at this point. i have to say that your post really hit a nail with me so i have to let it percolate a bit. thanks so much for posting on this.

    i don’t want to date another soul i have to ‘fix’ i want them to have fixed themselves. i don’t expect perfection but i’m hoping to find evolution and an interest in continuing to evolve. but i think i want success more.

    ambition and power are hot after all.
    .
    BB: wow. thank you.

    i am also going to think about your words, they are powerful and must also percolate…

  132. Bicentennial Baby says:

    …oops, meant to say 99% the marriage will fail unless you’re lucky enough to be a SB in that outcome. No intentions of failure over here anyway!

  133. Bicentennial Baby says:

    @Cleo,

    Range is something I have some questions about too…mine is 1-3K since I have 2, maybe 3x a month availability (anything more and I would probably think its a boyfriend, I didn’t see my DH more than 1x week when I was dating…I’m not clingy and thankfully many men like that). I’m in the 2-3 really and worried others might not do the math so to speak.

    Of course I do understand the cost of gifts are included in that, but trying to have the conversation that I need a *little* cash allowance for tuition and to just upkeep my look is the hard part. I have said pretty much exactly that and there seems to be no issue but the real test will be the IRL meeting too.

    Regarding love/money…I understand your dilemma Cleo but I can offer you the other viewpoint. I married for love at 18 1st time and 2nd time in my 20’s after a divorce. Both men did not make much. My DH now make what could be considered a very middle class salary. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch in a poorer part of town. He works hard and would give the world if he could. (he’s ok with this, which to me says a lot about letting me be happy too). However the shoes, clothes and things I was able to do while working 60+hrs a week are all GONE now that I was laid off, and won’t return unless I do something on my part.

    Can I say I am not well treated? Never. He puts a roof over our head and food on the table. Am I happy with not being able to go to nice restaurants or buy myself a Coach bag once or twice a season? No way. Does this make me selfish and shallow? Possibly, though having permission makes it ok in my book and his.

    There is no moral answer right or wrong to my dilemma, it’s just that, a dilemma. I find being a SB is a good answer to it since the SD’s are aware (and ok) with my situation. They get to give me experiences and events I can’t have otherwise and I can share with them a positive, fun and affectionate special friend who genuinely cares about what their week has been like and making life sunny in a variety of ways.

    Is this the ideal situation? Probably not. If you are not already in love with a man who cannot provide what you know you cannot live without, I would never entertain the thought of marrying such. It would be so much better for you to not have to choose because ultimately, the marriage will fail if you choose love and need a certain level of comfort–you will either end up being a SB anyway (unlikely w/most husbands) or you will be miserable (99% outcome). Just my opinion from the other side of the rabbit hole.

  134. NYGent says:

    Cleo/NC Gent: in my opinion most SDs will not refrain from contacting an SB who is one rung above their range, i.e., an SD who’s at 1-3 will contact a 3-5, and a 3-5 will contact a 5-10, etc. — but not two rungs above. Generally I wouldn’t contact anyone at $10+, unless I get the sense they just sort of threw a big numer out there without any real thought. (which, as I think about it, isn’t a good sign to begin with)

  135. cleo says:

    nc gent: i wish the ranges were better, i’d pick 2-4 if it were available … i went to 3-5 from ‘open’ because i got tired of the cheap assed 250/meet kind of offers. if a man is willing to pay 2-3k he’ll still contact a 3-5sb in my opinion.

    must say, way classier emails since i ‘upped’ the price *g*

  136. Dandelion Wine says:

    Ugh, oftentimes of course

  137. Dandelion Wine says:

    Cleo, I once read that the problem with women in healing professions is that they often times treat men in their lives as patients. It is not the problem for the men, mind you; it becomes a problem for the woman, because she assumes a service-oriented capacity and overextends herself emotionally.
    A healthy relationship should possess reciprocity; at work a healer extends her nurturing and caretaking for a limited period of time (until the patient gets better or gets worse) and at the end of the day she is compensated for it, and that makes it healthy.
    In a personal relationship of course the timeline is not defined, and a paycheck at the end of the day would feel cheap, especially if care and nurturing come from love, and not pity or duty, but there has to be reciprocity expressed in a way that is equivalent and is understood to be equivalent.
    I.e. If a patient at a facility thought he would buy the nurse flowers instead of paying and she was hoping to pay her rent with her paycheck, it is no different from a husband buying his wife jewelry, when she would have much rather preferred him spending the couple of hours it took him to earn the money with which he bought the jewelry just holding her instead.
    Long story short, don’t enter into relationships with men that need to be fixed. Express your interest and your desire to pursue something with them when they are all well. Spending a year or 2 waiting until he becomes more successful/more stable/more emotionally mature is hard, but it is nothing like fighting that battle with him, or rather for him, every day.
    And it’s very hard to resist sacrificing yourself if it means alleviating the pain of a wounded bird you love, but it is his/her battle, and he/she will have to fight it eventually. By stepping in you are not making it easier for him/her, you are just making it possible to avoid the battle until later.

    (is there some sort of (dubious) distinction for the longest post ever?)

  138. NYGent says:

    SD Guru: you’re right, age and location are also probably bigger factors than the profile text (although for some SDs looking for out of town/travel SBs, e.g., NC Gent, location is not that important). I would re-rank the factors as follows: pics 65%, age/location 15%, profile text 10%, $$ requested 10%. (not to be too scientific about it)

  139. Dandelion Wine says:

    BastIsisKali, re:pics – what is the image you are trying to create, what kind of man/woman are you trying to attract, and what kind of SB do you think would appeal to such man/woman?

  140. NC Gent says:

    I generally agree with what NY Gent said regarding profiles. I do like to see all your interests to see if we have something in common. Also, there seems to be a lot more people on SA viewing it as a conventional dating site, so if you are looking for a typical relationship state it – or even better yet — go to a more appropriate site. Also, if you strongly prefer married or single SDs — state it — it saves some time. Also, if you are able/willing to travel, put that in there — there are a number of SDs looking for an occasional travel partner.

    I also agree with what NYG said regarding the allowance amounts. There aren’t a lot of SDs (some but not many) that are going to provide a consistent long-term allowance of more than $10k. I know this may come across as cold, calculating and business-like (but let’s face it – money is part of this adventure), but I really haven’t noticed that much of a difference in SBs seeking $1-$3k per month vs the higher amounts, with the exception being in the large, high cost-of-living cities like NYC, San Fran, Los Angeles. Just like everything, there is a market price.

    I will prepare to be flogged for saying that!

  141. cleo says:

    LadyIntim: in fact it does sort of seem like a toss all the fish back in the pond and rebait the hook kind of query doesn’t it?

    you are very lucky to have love and money in the same person; what if you didn’t?

    i have dated a lot of men without money and you know, i’m not sure i can handle it anymore … they come out of them better, more confident, more sane about women and nearly always (90% at least) stay with the one after me forever. so i basically can’t do it again if i get nothing out of it.

    i guess that’s harsh but i’m a healer by profession and i’ve helped to heal a lot of men; who was it who said ‘leave them better than you found them’? that’s what i try to do and for the most part i’ve succeeded. i’m also poor and childless and nearly forty and no one is building equity with me.

    someone very smart once said ‘money doesn’t buy happiness but it sure makes it easier to go looking for it’ …

    if you had asked me this question before i would have said ‘love’ no question. i am no longer so sure of the answer. this is the only place i could ask the question where people wouldn’t attack my morals for thinking about it and considering it.

    i have even considered choosing love and money and telling neither about the other… but that feels icky.

  142. Sfbabe says:

    Hey all…newbie question..I’m 21, sd is getting me a 1bdrm condo to rent in sf. My credit is not good, and obviously his is great. Should I have him get it in his name to avoid being denied, possible larger deposit, and just overall a longer process? Or should I get it in my name and have him co-sign? I really do not know how to go about this. Btw, we are serious and it will be long term.

    Any input is appreciated and thanks guys/girls:)

  143. BastIsisKali says:

    @Cleo

    My only thought when this comes up is, “why does it matter?” I consider myself an independent woman who is able to support herself and provide for her own necessities. I’ve lived on less than $800/month when I was with AmeriCorps…I can do it and be content. Belly dancing (my biggest “expense” aside from normal bills) is definitely an expensive hobby, but I make my own costumes (often from items I get at thrift stores) and get a high amount of satisfaction from knowing I can support myself and have my fun times too.

    So how does that statement relate to the “love” question? Simple, if I meet someone and they are flat broke, but we are in “love” then what does it matter? If I can take care of myself (he can take care of himself) then it shouldn’t matter. Similar logic applies to the SD; If I am able to support and provide for myself anything above and beyond that, is simply a plus. It is more about the chemistry and connection, how much money the individual has shouldn’t be the determining factor.

    But I have become quite cynical and am overly skeptical of “love”…and I am very tired….so I should probably refrain from writing any more until I’ve had some sleep.

    Speaking of “above and beyond the necessities”….gotta take a kitteh to the vet tomorrow. Wish us luck.

    Good night all.

    • SD Guru says:

      Re: love vs money… just like real vs knock offs… I’m staying out of that one! :)

      @Bicentennial Baby

      The questions you’ve asked are fairly typical of a newbie SB at the early stage of her search. You’ve gotten some pretty good advice from the blog so I’ll just make some general comments. Keep in mind that your experience in the sugar world will be shaped by the decisions you make. As you get more experience you’ll start to make smarter/better decisions, but don’t be surprised if you have some bad experiences and have to learn from your mistakes.

      Before you worry about how far you should take things during a first meet with an out of town pot, ask yourself whether you should consider an out of town SD in your situation. Think it through in terms of how likely is it to develop an on-going arrangement, and the challenges involved in terms of availability and scheduling. And if the pot is pushing to consummate the arrangement during a first meet, ask yourself is that something you’re comfortable with.

      I understand since you’re new to the sugar world and you’ve been attached for most of your adult life, all the attention you’re getting from pots now can seem flattering and a boost to your ego. You may start to think the possibilities are endless as you are propositioned with various scenarios. But in reality we’re all constrained by our own situation with certain boundaries. Know what your boundaries are and choose wisely. Be patient and enjoy the process. What’s the rush?? :)

      @NYGent

      in the grand scheme of things, the profile text doesn’t matter that much.

      In the sugar world, attractive pics will trump a well written profile almost every time. In most cases a SD will decide whether to click on a profile and send an email based on the pics, age, and location. A witty/catchy headline and a well written profile obviously help, but the profile doesn’t get read if the SD doesn’t click on it.

      Have a good night everyone! Isn’t it time for a new blog topic?

  144. cleo says:

    one of the things i wonder in the poor love vs rich sd question is whether the very asking of the question means that you know the answer. it’s hard to say, is it simply cynicism toward love? is it that it all seems like too much work to try again?

    i don’t think it is, i mean i remember when nyc sb was discussing broke bf and her sugar life and i believe that if she had really felt he could be enough for her she never would have considered having a sugar life. do you know what i mean?

    if you can ask yourself whether love or money are more important to you, does it mean that you prefer money or that you secretly know the love isn’t enough or …?

    (i love this kind of talk i really do)

  145. Bicentennial Baby says:

    ….am I getting set up for a p2p and maybe don’t know it?

    Seems like an awful lot of trouble to go to if so (on the SD’s part) because there are definitely other ladies out there who would be a lot less trouble and they wouldn’t have to wait several weeks to be able to meet if so.

  146. cleo says:

    Bicentennial my rule of thumb is never to do anything that will tarnish the eyes looking back at me every morning. that said, i have slept with a few people the day i met them and only ever regretted the one where i was wishing i said no and didn’t.

    but see, i regret not listening to myself, not respecting what i was trying to tell myself… none of the others bother me at all. most delight me. (it’s not a lot btw, but i am a single woman who is now officially pushing forty)

    so … lady, don’t overthink it. do what your gut tells you and listen to your head and your heart and your yoni equally and you’ll probably be fine. that said, i won’t do more than make out without talk of an arrangement first.

  147. cleo says:

    Dandelion Wine: Investigator:

    “just dipping a toe in the water”

    “thought i would check this place out”

    etc :)
    .
    MidWest: lovely that my words are hot. ask me nicely and i’ll tell you where i hide all my hot wordz.

  148. Bicentennial Baby says:

    @NCGent & Midwest,

    Well in the case of the discussion I was told that the other party was prepared that if sparks fly, they were “prepared” to make the arrangement formal that day. Apparently some SB’s are stringing things out to the point the SD’s are afraid things aren’t going to be mutual. So basically saying they are willing to extend in good faith allowance/gifts of choice up front that meeting if there’s that chemistry on both our parts and I agree. So I would not be risking a “poof” for nothing because they are willing to put their cards on the table that day if I am willing to play the allowance in hand.

    I absolutely would not consider anything not mutually beneficial, but I am having a hard time feeling out if this is normal to bring up on the 1st IRL meet when a person is traveling so far to see you. Does waiting until a 2nd trip/airflight out communicate I’m not interested when in all fairness I really am? I am just afraid of thinking that they will believe me not in good faith if I decline out of principle as opposed to declining because there’s no allowance being discussed or there’s no desire to enter an arrangement.

    Does that make sense?

  149. BastIsisKali says:

    @Spice

    I agree about the photos….show us your gorgeous self!

    For me, I rarely take pictures of myself. The only recent pictures I have are when I am in costume for a performance. If anyone has suggestions on ways to improve my photo’s and/or profile I would love to hear them.

  150. Dandelion Wine says:

    Spice, take your pics outside in a broad daylight. You have pretty features, but they get lost in the dark photo. Also, get a photo that gives an idea of your body type – “a few extra pounds” is not really a good description.
    You come across as intelligent, sweet, and fun to be around in your profile, but double check your punctuation and spelling

  151. Dandelion Wine says:

    NYGent, what’s an Investigator?

  152. NYGent says:

    Bast: “Open/negotiable” is perfectly fine (as long as it’s true). If $10,000 plus is non-negotiable for you, may as well get it out there.

  153. Spice says:

    Hey Suga! Been having a blast lately! Just not in sugar land :( Any way would one of you vets mind helping me out? I don’t know if its something my profile says like maybe Im talking too much or maybe my joke didn’t go over well. Maybe its my pics? If so I’ll change them. Please help. Thanks

  154. SweetSugar says:

    Hello all.
    I’ve been dealing with a SHIT load of crazy stuff in real life. Therefore, this blogs has been the last thing on my mind. I won’t bore you with details about that. Not that it’s boring, actually.

    Anyway, on a lighter note, I had a pot SD ask me for nude pics. He said if I won’t give him them then he will immediately move on. He said that most SBs have not given him the nude pictures. YA THINK????
    He says in the future he will explain why he asks for them upfront.
    BULL! Aint nothin’ but a horny photo collector. And even if he was a real SD he’s still a sleaze ball for demanding an immediate invasion of privacy and needs a serious smack in the head.

  155. BastIsisKali says:

    @NYGent

    What about listing the amount as “Open-Negotiable”? In my mind, that is the least obtrusive option, which is why I chose it. But, as an SD, does seeing “Open” put you off, as if the SB is unsure of what they want? In other words, is it preferable to see a concrete selection, or something more ambiguous?

  156. NYGent says:

    typo: “not a bad rule of thumb . . .”

  157. NYGent says:

    BiCentennial: there’s no unequivocal answer to your question. There is a school of thought that says never, ever let “sparks fly” on first meet until the allowance, or a good portion of it, has actually been paid. Not a ban rule of thumb but maybe a little doctrinaire. If a definite agreement is reached on allowance, and you trust the guy, and the chemistry is there, I would say there is no per se rule against intimacy on first meet — but you must ask yourself the following question: if the guy travels back his hundreds of miles to his original destination, without paying you any part of the allowance, and you never hear from or see him again, will you regret having done what you did? If the answer is no, then there’s no rule that says, in all circumstances, “don’t do it!” But if you would find yourself feeling hurt, betrayed and regretting it if he poofs (which he may find easier to do because of the distance), then you’ll have yourself largely to blame. So be sure of the answer to that question before letting those sparks fly.

  158. Midwest SB says:

    Bibaby – Have sex if you WANT to have sex, but don’t think that it equals an arrangement. The men who have come to see me did not expect or even suggest we have sex. Of the three men who came to me, I ended up in arrangements with two of them. You are adults… just don’t go into it with the expectation that you are in an official arrangement until the formalities of the arrangement have been agreed upon and some show of good faith has been put in place.

  159. NYGent says:

    Now I will say something that may seem to contradict the above posts, which is that in the grand scheme of things, the profile text doesn’t matter that much. I would venture to say that for most SDs, the decicision whether to email an SB is based 70% on the photos, 20% on the profile text, and 10% on the amount of $$ requested. Most of the time the profile text alone won’t “win” it for you, but it can “lose” it. The $$ requested only makes a difference at the extremes: SBs who put down “less than $1,000” send the wrong message, and those who put “more than $10,000” simply price themselves out of the market (very, very few SDs on this site will or can offer over $10,000, most who can afford to do so don’t need the site to find SBs and do better IRL).

  160. Bicentennial Baby says:

    @NYGent,

    Great tips…I’d almost be tempted to rewrite/revamp my profile a little bit. I need to take a break on inquiries anyway!

    I think like BastIsisKali, mine borders closer to the blander but at least its upbeat and inoffensive to anyone. I did remember to put what I can share with my pot SD. I’m naturally into a LOT of the same things guys are into so it comes easily to me to talk about those things.

    I’ve got my 1st meet scheduled! It’s a few weeks out because the gentlemen who I’ve spoken with that are working towards the “meet” stage are all ones who must travel to my area.

    May I ask a question of the sugar fam? Is it normal to anticipate at that meeting, if one or both parties must fly in, that an arrangement might be reached and ahem, some sparks fly later that same day? At first I was 100% against that but considering there will be several weeks of phone conversation/emails beforehand, does that change the timetable because it’s not a local and there’s a LOT more coordination?

    Does this make me less of a lady if I agree to this if there’s chemistry on the very first meet? We’re hundreds of miles apart. Of course I would never do something I don’t want to do, but if I really like someone and they like me, is this OK or is this cheezy to consider?? I’m not sure it’s fair to make someone fly out twice since it’s not a simple drive an hour type of thing—IF there’s chemistry. The mutual benefits have already been discussed, and appear to be no problem for either of us, so that conversation is done with.

    Input most welcome both SB’s and SD’s….need your insight!!!

  161. BastIsisKali says:

    @NYGent

    Points well taken. I think mine might border on your second example; not enough specifics and potentially bland.

    Time to do some editing…again. I look forward to reading the Flo Rida suggestions, thank you.

  162. NYGent says:

    As promised here are Flo Rida’s classic profile suggestions:

    Profiles – to save time:
    Rule1 – don’t say anything negative – no I could lose a few pounds
    Rule2 – Personalize be unique – don’t say you’re fun prove it with a story or your humor. Don’t say I’m a foodie say ‘Do you think Per Se is better than French Laundry’ don’t say I’m well travelled say ‘I’ve travelled to 37 countries & can’t decide if dining at Felix overlooking HK Central or snorkeling at the Great Barrier Reef is my most memorable experience’
    Rule3 – weed out undesirables & also tell people what you want ‘if you are between 30 & 45, emotionally grounded & able to provide mentorship & financial assistance then I’d like to hear from you, I won’t bite (unless biting is what you’re into… kidding!)
    Rule4 – upscale it – show you know their world (of course this only applies if you really do).
    Rule5 – SD will read the tag line & look at the pics & read the profile. but you can lose them on the tag line – examples Boston Barbie – Simply the best – Better than all the rest – A glimpse of bliss. Insert a line on discretion & balance. Keep it short (SD are very busy and have short attention spans – they’ll decide within 1 min to move on).
    Rule6 – Add a line on being 100 percent committed to this & understanding mutually beneficial (with chemistry)
    Rule7 – do not add all your interests – most SD aren’t interested in the same things – they don’t care about pilates or Twilight or being a girly girl. Only add interests that connect with them (generally s-x, sportsm food, business, sports cars, travel).
    SD lists the SB types as Investigators, Arm Candy, Drama Queens. The only acceptabe category is ‘I’m arm candy on Loubotins and for the right man I offer a glimpse of bliss’.
    SD are thinking what will this SB do 4 me – in life as well as the bedroom – r they drama, disease, drug free, do they understand me, will I get along with them, r they fun & balanced, will they follow through. Make sure you answer all these q-s rest is supply-demand.

  163. NYGent says:

    I thought I would offer some views on SB profiles. I am not an expert, but it strikes me that many SBs don’t use enough imagination in putting their best foot forward.

    There are two types of recurring profiles that fall short (i will exclude the overly suggestive, escort-ish ones, which it goes without saying are a big turnoff to most SDs).

    One is the “entitlement” theme: “I am looking for a man who can give me a lavish lifestyle, put me on a pedastal, as I am high maintenance and need a VERY generous benefactor.” or words to that effect.

    Comment: it’s a given that most SBs on the site are looking for these things, to greater or lesser degrees. This kind of profile conveys no useful information and just sends a signal that “it’s all about me.” Not enticing at all.

    Second type: the “bland”: Eg., “I am a loving, kind, affectionate woman who is filled with passion. I am educated and well spoken and can socialize with people from all walks of life. I am a funny and love to laugh. I am spontaneous and open minded. I like to exercise and play sports. I love the outdoors and love to travel, preferably warm sunny destinations.”

    Comment: Nothing offensive here, but nothing interesting either. totally banal. All generalities, nothing very specific.

    Suggestions: be concrete! Do you prefer a campari and soda overlooking the Campo de Fiore, a Pinot Noir in the fogs of San Francisco, or a Blue Moon during the office softball game? Monet’s Water Lilies or Warhol’s soup cans? The broad humor of the Farrelly Brothers, or the more subtle, Lubitsch Touch? The answers don’t matter, it’s the expression of interest, and detail, that suggest a person of interest. For those who have never read the famous Flo Rida profile suggestions, I commend them to you (I will try to find it and copy it in a separate blog.)

    Those are my thoughts anyway . . .

  164. BastIsisKali says:

    @Sugarbecka

    I agree about that third picture. It really is the best, sensual without being sexual and very alluring. The window and a/c in the background does scream hotel room though….But, in the long run, does that influence the potential SD’s? Not sure.

    If you don’t mind, I noticed some typo, grammatical errors or at least grammatically confusing spots. Would you like me to message you (or post here?) some suggestions?

    Overall, the message you are sending out seems good. I wish you the best of luck.

  165. Midwest SB says:

    Sugarbecka – Much better pics! I like that you shortened your profile a little while saying what you want. I like the third pic best, but suggest you crop it closer and remove the a/c and curtains from the picture. It looks like you’re in a hotel. The first pic is my second choice, but see if you can lighten it up a bit. If you don’t have photo editing software, download Picaso for free. It’s super easy to use.

    Don’t be disenchanted…it takes time sweetie.

  166. Midwest SB says:

    Reddamsel – I’ve read your profile and have some suggestions. Please e-mail me at life_is_good_today at live dot com. Please leave in the underscores.

    Michael – well said…typos and all :)

  167. Typo #2: through live and life = through love and life.

  168. Typo: Bring poor in love = Being poor in love.

  169. RedDamsel – my point was that both love and money are both generally temporary. I have had excesses of both in my life, as well as shortages. Being financially poor – meh, get over it and get on with it. Money is like the tide in the ocean, it ebbs and flows. Bring poor in love? I would rather die. I have met and loved some of the most wondrous women over the years. Shared and cherished the most extraordinary moments with them – made love and laughter with great women in beautiful surroundings, held my baby daughter as she was born, cradled my beautiful wife’s head as she died in my arms. Money is naught compared to the memories I have, the friends I have and the continued journey through live and life.

    Sorry, your comment just triggered something good and strong inside me.

  170. Yaz says:

    Re: Age discussion
    All I can say is I just cannot wait to turn 25 to start paying wayyyyy less for my car insurance 😀 ( I know this is completely off topic lol)

  171. Reddamsel38 says:

    Good evening sugars. How is everyone?
    @Alleycat u rather take the money…… .ouch. But I think I can understand where your coming from. True to the statement love comes and goes, know that from personal experience.
    @Midwest hey where have u been. Lurking??

    Between classes and work I’m bushed. So I’ll say Gnight.

  172. SugaBeckha says:

    Good evening all in sugarland…… haven’t been here in awhile, and while i switched my pictures and modified my profile…..still no luck someone help pleaseeeeeeeeeee thanks happy sugars

  173. Dandelion Wine says:

    BastIsisKali, I meant to write “u r in luv”, and then lost focus midsentence! Ack :(

  174. Midwest SB says:

    NYGent – (((hugs)))) some things just go without saying :)

    Cleo – that was hot! I swear I became 100x the lover I was when I started paying attention to the gasps, moans, body language and even directions. Sexuality dot org has some great advice on becoming a better lover. Includes great tips what I call “treats”…of course it was written by a gay man, but I have had noooooooo complaints! ***fans self***

    Sorry…couldn’t let that one go :)

  175. NYC SB says:

    I pick a really generous super hot single sd… Off to dinner with someone that fits the description! Have an awesome night sugar family

  176. BastIsisKali says:

    @Dandelion

    I am typically against text-speak, however, for some reason your use of “u r” seems appropriate for that sentence.

    100 degrees outside again….ack.

  177. carebear says:

    generous sd. or being single.

  178. Dandelion Wine says:

    How broke is the broke love? Like “barely makes 6 fig and probably won’t have any significant earning capacity growth in the next 5 years” broke or “sitting on welfare and fine with it” broke?
    Also, what is his attitude? Is he sacrificing sleep to make sure he can at some point provide for the family he wants to start with you, or does he want you to drop everything for him just because u r in love?

  179. I would take the broke love.

    Money comes and goes, but … oh wait … so does love…

    Maybe I’d take the money.

  180. cleo says:

    ohhh that’s what i said *g*

  181. cleo says:

    bicentennial: devoted hair brusher? okay what the heck did i say…?

    lol

    meet as many men as you like, just don’t make promises until you pick one.
    .
    here’s one for the blog

    if you could choose between a really generous SD and a broke love… which would it be?

  182. Sherri says:

    @Bicentennial – I’m in pretty much the same situation as you living in a small town and fishing pretty far outside my area. I prefer a little anonymity at first so I tend to drive even though I’ve gotten some offers to come to me. I think setting up more than one date on the same day is a great idea. It’ll save you some driving and give you an excuse to leave if you decide you’re not interested. I’d recommend sending a confirmation text/email “Are we still on for today?” before driving out because nothing’s worse than getting stood up or getting a last-minute cancellation after you’ve driven all that way. I’d also let the guys know that you’re coming from pretty far so you’ll need advanced notice for cancellations. One guy sent me an email cancelling our date but I was already on the road by the time it went out and didn’t get his email until much later. I ended up having a nice day in the city in spite of the miscommunication, but it would have been nice to avoid.

  183. Bicentennial Baby says:

    @Cleo,

    Love the devoted hairbrusher idea! I’ll have to pass that along…

    Is there any advice on scheduling pot meets? I have to drive nearly 2hrs to the area I am “fishing” in as it were. I now have 5 pot SD’s who are all at the stage of wanting to know when we can do a 1st meet…lunch/s’bux that kind of thing. I am thinking of going up for the day and trying to setup 2 one day and 2 the other (one is in another state and I’m devoting the whole day to that one as I have a friend there too and will be able to swing by and see her…) with maybe a few hours inbetween?

    am I trying to schedule too much? I know the interest in new profiles does wane and I genuinely like the people I am speaking with. No fat hairy old ugly guys…everyone’s photos so far are actually pretty nice! Maybe I’m not as picky as some–I like a few extra pounds it’s a non-issue either way–but most of the gentlemen are the type i wouldn’t IRL expect as sugardaddies! I would think they would be dating long term. I understand why though..who wants to split half their stuff in a divorce or deal with negativity all the time once committed? Marrying a SB you at least know if it becomes that she’s hot, fun, and usually drama free. eHarmony chicks, not so sure.

    Anyway my question pertains to how to schedule this…am I being “greedy” trying to see if I click with those that I’m emailing by meeting multiple people in real life?? I have been honest to those that ask I’m in the selection phases right now. What sucks is I really wish I *did* have more available time (I do volunteer work & have some obligations) to share but I am going to have to settle on one, maybe two, in the end. And it sucks having to tell whoever I don’t end up with (if we click, and they’re nice etc…) that it won’t work out right now.

    How do you ladies deal with this? And to the sugardaddies, do you get offended if you are not selected if a lady has several candidates? would you talk to her down the road if she follows up with you if the arrangement comes to its natural conclusion?”

  184. ElegantSugarBaby says:

    Just stopping by to say hi… Sorry I have been neglecting the blog.. Alas the Sugar world calls.. :)

    Date number two is tomorrow night… :)
    It has been such a long week… Worth waiting for I hope..

  185. cleo says:

    SD Guru: oh dear, can’t you take a warm one and continue to enjoy the lovely imagery?

    as for her, i’m just saying don’t judge her by her ex boyfriend yet. you have a data point for potential crazy but not proof yet. you also have a data point for potential rude but again not proof. if i found out one of my exes offed himself i might be so shocked i would forget to text someone…

    i’m with micheal, see her again and then decide…
    .
    ny gent: i know, i was referring to nc gent’s comment and hadn’t even read yours yet… but i sure want to know it if i come off with a chip on my shoulder. occasionally defensive? sure… but that’s not the same thing…

  186. NYGent says:

    BeachGirl, Cleo and Midwest: obviously you’re all on the n.c. (“no chip”) list, which I meant to be illustrative not exhaustive!

  187. cleo says:

    aw man, i wrote this whole great post about the chip thing and then freaking reloaded the page and it’s gone. i keep forgetting chrome loses text.

    anyway, anybody whose greatest glory was back in high school ends up with a chip on their shoulder; it’s got to suck knowing your best days are behind you. for me life gets better every year and i am absolutely my hottest AND happiest self right this second.

    it’s basically impossible for that to be true and to have a chip on your shoulder at the same time. (gosh i hope anyway, do i seem ‘chippy’ to y’all?) as far as i can tell the only way to stay happy is to stay engaged and keep learning and growing. anything else is a recipe for misery and a very small life.

    okay night :)

  188. cleo says:

    NC Gent: wow, i’m totally not the mid/late 30s you guys describe and midwest sure isn’t that kind of early 40s. i think you can find craziness and drama in any age group. Scheduling is even funnier for me, i actually have better availability now than i did ten years ago. It’s fun being the exception to the rule but it does make the needle in the haystack harder to find.
    .
    Alleycat/Nyc SB you know you guys i dated a man when i was in my 20s that i eventually left because he liked cocaine more than he liked me. when we started dating he was this cute and funny guy who was a bit shy and made me wait months before we had sex (but we slept in the same bed and made out all the time) and who told me about his former addiction to cocaine.

    of course months later i came back early and knocked on his door and walked in and there he and his brother were doing lines in the living room. i would have NEVER guessed he was using again and i have partied with rock stars.

    he swore up and down it was occasional, that he was quitting, that this and that that… and i was young and i wanted to believe him. i eventually left him a few (like 3?) months after i caught him using again.

    had i heard that he had od’d even after i left him because of the drugs? i would have been devastated. please don’t judge her by her ex. leaving that man is one of the hardest things i did up to that point in my life, but i did it. he’s an ex.

    the strike is the failure to text and NOT the ex. s’all i’m saying.
    .
    Stormcat I kind of knew that it was darling or dearest hubby but i was all designated hubby, designated hitter, devoted hairbrusher….
    .
    lala reading more scroll

  189. cleo says:

    sb-emy: ew

    really ew. he’s acting like henry higgins on one side but treating you like a whore on the other. ew.

    you want to know how to please a man? read articles and smut and pay attention without considering it ‘advice’ or ‘technique.’ slow down and listen with your whole body.

    does his breath catch? do his legs tighten? does he moan? does his grasp around your body tighten? slacken? does he grap your hair/butt/shoulders/whatever with passion

    does he do things to you that you don’t do to him? try them on him.

    most of all? touch the way you want to be touched and look for reaction. anything that gets gasps or moans or shivers or heads falling back? do more of. relax and enjoy YOURSelf too.
    .
    Sherri: wow, you must be a babe.
    .
    Micheal our version of that was ‘take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints’

    • SD Guru says:

      @Cleo

      you want to know how to please a man? read articles and smut and pay attention without considering it ‘advice’ or ‘technique.’ slow down and listen with your whole body.

      I had forgotten sb-emy’s post about being taught how to please a man until I saw your response. It reminded me of an experience a few years ago when I “trained” my SB to be my personal porn star and doing every trick in the book and then some, and doing it very well! I’ll save that story for my blog on another day. For now I’ll go take a cold shower after reading your post…. 😉

      please don’t judge her by her ex. leaving that man is one of the hardest things i did up to that point in my life, but i did it. he’s an ex.

      That may be true in your case, but it’s hard to say what’s going on in her case. Is her ex truly an ex, or is it going to take some time for her to get him out of her life? In the mean time, is she really SB material or is she just drama waiting to happen and Michael is better off by pursuing other options?

  190. BrownSugar says:

    @BastIsisKali

    Possible :p but that just makes me want to read it more!! LOL

  191. Dandelion Wine says:

    Louboutins are def a special occasion shoe, they look great but are uncomfortable as #€££! I’ve worn heels since I was 13, nevermind the ballet, and even my feet can’t handle Louboutins for more than a couple of hours.
    For daily wear Prada all the way for me – the most comfortable 4 inch heel ever. Also loving Stuart Weitzman lately. Maybe a new design team? Some definite hits and super comfortable.

  192. BastIsisKali says:

    @BrownSugar

    Maybe it’s just too naughty for your computer. 😉

  193. BrownSugar says:

    NYC SB: When I try to open your blog, I get a warning saying the site will harm my computer! Hope it hasnt been hacked or something…

  194. BastIsisKali says:

    @ LadyIntim

    All I am saying is that many new SBs may think that this is what SA is all about.

    I imagine that is a more common occurrence with the 20-somethings, but again, I am generalizing. I know people who are in their 50’s+ who still do not have good money-management skills.

    I have definitely noticed this shift in the generations. Watching individuals who are ten years older than I, who are approximately my age, and who are ten years older than I am….you see quite the difference in attitude. As always, there are exceptions; I consider myself an exception…but I am biased.

    Just one more thing. I think that in the Sugar world people should have the right two discriminate against certain age groups and other aspects of a potential partner.

    I agree with you on this point. Speaking as someone who doesn’t fit into the stereotype/idealized SB, I still believe there is going to be, and should be, a higher level of discrimination (not in a negative sense) when it comes to the SD/SM/SB relationship. I can hope that my intelligence and other attributes can be enough to start a potential SD/SB relationship, but I have no illusions that it will happen quickly or with as much ease as those who are much more marketable than I am. We’ll see.

  195. NYC SB says:

    sure… email me… my email is on my blog… and i am a hoarder as well.. nothing wrong with an awesome safety net

  196. NYC SB says:

    ladyI – yes cutting on groceries to buy louboutins is crazy… however, being prudent to save up for a pair is ok (i am all about spoiling yourself once a year)

  197. NYC SB says:

    ooppps my bolding skills have been lost

  198. NYC SB says:

    Hi sugars!

    LadyI – I do not blog in real time to protect the identity of the guilty… currently I am at year lag… I thought I made that clear at one of my posts but it a question I often get…maybe I should go along as if this is happening at the moment hahaha … currently I am still a sugar baby in NYC who is more focused on her future and capitalizing off my sugar endeavours rather than finding an SD (I wont deny or confirm the possibility that I have one at the moment)… however, most of my thoughts have been journaled as they happened… such as the menu 

    NYC sugesstions – Food? Per Se/French Laundry tops my list, along with the cookshop, del postos, butter, coliccio and sons, del monacos, buddah kahn, postis, dos caminos… just some of the few

    Cool lounges bars – MO Bar (breath taking views of central park), 230 fifth (awesome views of empire state building), gasenvoort hotel (awesome views of jersey lol), empire hotel, hudson hotel both are awesome roof tops for happy hour cocktails and Mr Big type viewings 😉

    Things to do – cheesy but great… hop on hop of tours, broadway… pretty much any show (im biased towards wicked)… hmmm shopping along 5th ave, shopping in the meatpacking (horatio street is the home of my beloved louboutin boutique… and of course the best thing to do is meet up with NYC SB for girl talk and cocktails 😉

    Stormy – hahah sorry for not keeping u updated on my life… which lately consists of many dates with my wife Muse

    NY Gent – that was the best… on another note Muse is stuck in Europe with no return ticket… whatever shall we do? Lol

    Not a member – wow… touching truly

  199. Bicentennial Baby says:

    I’m surprised by all the expiration date theories…I’m coming at this from the other end. I was never beautiful in my teens, at least not as much as I think I am now. I was a teenage beauty queen too, at least in name only, but the confidence and ability to put my best foot forward–choose flattering makeup and hairstyles–have my own sense of style…all that came just in my 30’s just recently. I wasn’t as pretty then in my 20’s as I am now and my ex even will vouch for that, he often jokes (seriously) he wishes he knew then what he knows now..which is a sort of back-handed compliment really!

    I guarantee if you didn’t put ages on profiles, you would see a lot more hits on many different girls than perhaps now. Men don’t guess age as a rule as accurately as another woman will. They do however respond more viscerally to a published age, simply because it confirms their virility on some subconscious level, to know they can get a 20-something well into their 50’s and even beyond. If they found out that 20 something was actually 36 or even 40, I suppose that “victory” loses its charm.

    Funny thing, I was speaking with one lovely pot SD and in researching him, found he shaved off 10 years from his profile age! (comparing a known event date to the age they were at the time.) I was 100% just fine learning that, if anything I was surprised at the untruth because it wasn’t necessary. My age range can run well past 50 on what I find attractive, it’s person to person basis. I just had to smile knowing maybe like the Gretchen Wilson song “Girls Lie Too”…well so do the guys!

    Regarding the shoe blog, I vote the pair on top is the faux Louboutins, the soles wore away much quicker. I would be mad if they wore off that soon. One part of me thinks it is utterly stupid to have Louboutins at $800 up a pair (much much rather have an iPad!!) and one part of me is crazy enough to go hmmm. I would be the envy of my friends to own a pair–just one?

    (slaps self…down girl…its just a pair of dumb shoes and not even tennis shoes at that…)

  200. SD Guru says:

    @LadyIntim

    I’ve been following her blog, taking everything in as if it was happening NOW… As far as I remember there was no indication in her stories that this was from the past. How long ago did all these events take place then?

    In the comments section of NYC SB’s blog she clarified the events with Mr Big happened about a year ago. Also, in the first few posts in her blog she explained the events are not in real time. Although Mr Big has already happened and I have a hunch on how it ended, it’s still very interesting to see how things unfold. As for her current situation, I guess she’ll speak for herself if she wants to let it be known.

    Any cool suggestions for NY? Last time I went to Vegas, a few of you recommended Zumanity and that was a hit. I am open to new suggestions!

    Are you looking for suggestions in NY or LV? And when are you going?

    @NYGent

    my female friends of my age go absoutely berserk at the notion of my dating a much younger women.. They really, really dislike 20-ish women who date much older guys, and the guys who date such women. What gives on that?

    It’s pretty simple. When an older men dates younger woman, most people automatically assume it’s a sugar relationship. And the general public’s perception of sugar relationship is that it’s only based on money. Therefore they despise the older man who is willing to “buy” the affection of a younger woman, and the same negative reaction for the younger woman who is willing to be “bought”. Of course, those of us in the sugar world know better, but that’s how our society generalize and pass judgment on the situation.

  201. Midwest SB says:

    NYC SB can answer for herself, but I will share this.

    She shares to give others insight to her experiences…not to document her day-to-day experiences. To show respect for her former SDs she has chosen to have a significant time lapse. I think it makes sense and gives credit to her character.

    Back to lurking.

  202. BastIsisKali says:

    @NYGent

    The Western concept of beauty has been a tough one for us to live up to; because it is not a fair and attainable goal for 99% of us. So, when we find out that decent, kind and potentially wonderful men are ignoring women of their approximate age, it can be just one more blow in that coffin of westernized shame. This isn’t just an issue for “older” women; it is one that we, as western/American women, are forced to deal with from our first steps into a kindergarten classroom. Every time we watch TV or open a magazine, or listen to the radio, a certain ideal is held up and, even though we KNOW it is not something we will ever match, we can even accept that we won’t, it is often difficult to get those influences out of our minds.

    As a “younger” woman who is typically attracted to older males, I have heard both sides of this. I was once told by a friend of mine that the only reason a particular guy I was intimate with was with me was simply because I was “20 years younger than he is!” In other words, the likelihood of us having anything in common was completely ignored and disregarded by the outside audience. At the time, I was 24 and he was 52 I think…so, a bit more than a 20 year gap, but I got the point. I also didn’t care. We had fun and enjoyed each others company and that is what mattered.

    In my experience, there are *typically* two categories of males who pursue significantly younger women: those who happen to meet and are mutually attracted to the younger/older dynamic and those who have succumbed to the Westernized idea of “beauty” and let it cloud their judgment. Does anyone remember that guy who shot up a gym class because the women in there (all 30-something and less) had or represented women who rejected him? He was a devout follower of this author who SWORE that he could make 20-somethings fall in love with older guys. The author of that book was, in my opinion, a cruel person who was no better than any other cult leader, selling some invisible product. These people are snake-oil salesmen and they truly irritate me. It’s one thing to have goals, shoot for them and encourage against all odds….it is a whole other thing, to deceive and manipulate individuals as he did.

    However, there are those of us for whom age is really just an irrelevant number, but even that statement is not 100% accurate. I could meet the most amazing wo/man, but if they were 80 or 90, I would definitely be far more hesitant than if they were 40 or 50.

    So…after another long, rambling post, I shall get to my point; Basically, it is not so simple to ask, “What gives?” To truly understand what gives, you have look at a more thorough picture, one which involves a long history of misogyny and the devaluation of women.

    For additional perspective, I’d suggest watching the documentary film/lecture series called Killing Us Softly. It is a look at the portrayal of women through the media since the 1970’s to today. Truly fascinating. For someone who thought she was up on her game, I learned a lot from those films.

    If you made it this far…thanks for reading. :)

  203. Beach_Girl says:

    Hi Sugars

    The age thing…. Urgh…( I hate the age thing, Most people generalize)
    I don’t have a chip on my shoulder and I don’t feel entitled to anything… I think people generalize the age factor… You will never know if you don’t talk to someone. It’s easy to say all people in their 30s have a chip… not all do, and not all have kids.
    I think it’s a preference with SDs… Some like 20 y/o , some like older women. I could say some SDs have chips on their shoulders too… I have met a few… it’s all about what you want. This is sugar , it should be fun

  204. NYGent says:

    Carebear: you’re entitled to your Louboutins, Choo’s or whatever other shoes you Choos(e)! (I kid only a little)

  205. carebear says:

    I’m under 25, what is it that I’m entitled to?

  206. NYGent says:

    Generalizations on age groups are tricky and risk offending individuals within the group who don’t conform to the group stereotype. There are and have been lots of 30-something women on the blog who no one could accuse of having chips on their shoulder, I’m thinking of bloggers such as Anna Molly, Photogirl, Taz, all lovely ladies. That said I think there is something to the 30s “chip” theory, generally speaking. SBs 25 and under, also generally speaking, don’t have the “chip” but do (or can) have other entitlement issues that you don’t find in more mature women. And I also agree the “chip” tends to fall away around age 39 or so.

    There are generalizations running the other way, too, such as the oft-voiced view by women of all ages that “younger guys” (e.g., 25 or so) are just “boys” who “don’t know how to treat a lady.” I’m sure there are guys in that age group who would object to being lumped in that way, but again, there is usually a kernal of truth in such generalizations.

    One inconsistency i’ve noticed, as a somewhat older guy, is that while I have no problem with “cougar” women who go for a younger guy (it’s sort of cool, I think), my female friends of my age go absoutely berserk at the notion of my dating a much younger women. Their reaction is almost always visceral and negative. They really, really dislike 20-ish women who date much older guys, and the guys who date such women. What gives on that?

  207. BastIsisKali says:

    That’s what I figured. I have mine linked to my SB profile and assumed most would do the same (or to their blog).

    Oh well….

    Thanks stormcat! Glad I could assist in your crack up. 😉

  208. Stormcat says:

    BastIsisKali ~ whatever people paste into the website box of the leave a reply form is the link that will come up when you click on their name on the blog. Some people link their SA profile while others link their blog or another relevant website. So there isn’t really a list of blogs for all of the people who are blogging here. In fact many of us don’t even have another blog, other than this SA blog, where we regularly post.

  209. Stormcat says:

    BastIsisKali, Dandelion, B Baby CareBear ~ you guys are cracking me up!!! I’m away from the blog for half a day and you all come on with this stuff. I don’t think you were interacting directly but the overall result is synergistic genius.

  210. BastIsisKali says:

    Potentially dumb question….Where are all of these blogs that people have? I just assumed that they could be linked to through a highlighted screen-name (Like SDGuru is) but I have seen people mention their own blog, but there is no link to it. So, is there a location which I can search for all of these at? Am I missing something?

    Thanks!

  211. Stormcat says:

    B Baby ~ lets not even go into DW DS or DD :)
    Okay well maybe it might be rather entertiaining! Like disgusting witch, deranged socialite, or deadly dilitaunt.

  212. Stormcat says:

    Well Lady I== I think I’m in the same disillusioned place as you, thinking that I was a part of the “in crowd” and keeping up with what was happening with our blog friend NYC SB in the moment. Either it is true that we have been keeping up or we have both been fooling ourselves (not that it is much of a consolation to be in the same boat) in either case we just need to chill, and if we are not in the know, let her know that she has not been respectful of our friendship and thet in the future she should be a little more dilligent in keeping us posted off blog. Otherwise, no big deal, right! Afterall she, like all of us, is sometimes biting off more than she can chew.

  213. BastIsisKali says:

    @carebear

    Sorry to hear you are sick. :( Never fun.

    I had to google those shoes. I’ve never been a shoe person…although there is a pair of Fluevog boots I have been coveting for a while which would be perfect for performing in. Comfy and stylish with good support and flexibility. Not nearly as expensive as those shoes you listed, but far more than I would ever pay for.

    **le sigh**

    Get better soon! I’m enjoying a half-day off…sitting with my fan going while it’s 100F outside. Ack. I guess Ohio isn’t going to be much better, I hear.

  214. Not a member says:

    This is off topic to this discussion, but I have a story to tell.

    It’s a very long and sad story, but I’ll condense it to the part that pertains to you guys.

    I knew this very sweet woman who had more problems than any of you could imagine. Because of the nature of my relationship with her (relative to my job), all I could do was give her advice, which she all too often disregarded. Her life was spiraling out of control, and she needed more help than I could give. She really needed a man to step in and fix things for her.

    I couldn’t tell her to get a “sugar daddy”, but I was hoping that’s what she’d do. I told her over and over to stop chasing young boys and find a nice older guy with a job.

    But she loved those 21-year-old guys, and she was pregnant by one of them when she committed suicide.

    A sugar daddy would literally have saved that girl’s life. She was a beautiful person, and would have been the apple of any older man’s eye. She was the apple of my eye, and it kills me that my hands were tied and I couldn’t do more for her.

    Not sure why I’m sharing this, but keep in mind that some of those girls are in really dire straits. Be kind to them, and please take good care of them.

    • SD Guru says:

      @Not a Member

      keep in mind that some of those girls are in really dire straits. Be kind to them, and please take good care of them.

      Thanks for sharing your story. As sad as the story was, I’m not sure why you think a SD could be the solution to all of her problems. It’s been discussed in the blog in the past that needy/dire women don’t make good SB’s. Unless a SD has a serious case of white knight syndrome and wants to rescue a damsel in distress at all cost, otherwise most SD’s will stay far away from SB’s with serious problems like the one you described no matter how pretty she is.

      @Carebear

      My current relationship will end in Dec because he is retiring to another country. We both knew this going into it. I know the search process can take 6 days or 6 months, so I’ve started ‘looking’ again.

      Your current relationship has a built in expiration date which is prefect for NSA. There is no rule about looking for pots while still in a sugar relationship unless that’s what you had agreed to do. Good luck with your search!

      And for those of you females who love shoes (ie the entire population), there’s a quiz at the bottom! =)

      You knew discussing real vs knock-offs is like starting a holy war, right? I’m definitely staying out of that one! :)

      @ToughLove

      A hot 20-something sits at the top of the social food chain, even if all she’s accomplished in life is having a great body, hair extensions, and breast implants

      I agree with your assessment about the chip on the shoulder with 30 somethings age group, and the absence of a “chip” makes a pot SB more desirable. I’ll just add that while a hot 20 something may sit at the top of the social food chain in regular dating, that may not be the case in sugar dating because the dynamic of supply and demand is different as I’ve explained in this post.

      @Dandelion Wine

      there are plenty of girls in their mid 20′s that used to be hot in their teens/early 20′s and are visibly losing the battle.

      A former SB who was 23 at the time told me that her ex SD thought women are over the hill by 25. She actually believed it so she was out to get as much as she could from the sugar world before she turned 25. I tried to impress upon her that women in different age groups can appeal to different type of SD’s, but she won’t believe it at the time. I can only hope she is older and wiser now.

      @LadyIntim

      NYC SB’s story about Mr. Big happened in the past and the outcome is already known, so there is no future tense to the story. Your own situation with hubby SD is very rare in the sugar world and I hope everything turns out according to plan.

  215. carebear says:

    Me again-for those who aren’t irritated yet.

    So I’m in deep now, I made a sugar blog. Link is above. I’ve been reading several on here that are posted, but decided to make my own because I think I’m cool and interesting (sarcasm).

    Thus the end product of boredom on a ‘sick day’ from work.

    And for those of you females who love shoes (ie the entire population), there’s a quiz at the bottom! =)

    Ok I’ll leave you all alone now.

  216. Dandelion Wine says:

    @TL, there are plenty of girls in their mid 20’s that used to be hot in their teens/early 20’s and are visibly losing the battle.
    *Vicious* does not even begin to describe them.
    You think it’s hard for a guy around them? Ha, try being a pretty girl lol

  217. BastIsisKali says:

    @TL

    After thinking a bit more about your post, I wonder where the women who were not at the “top of the social food chain” fall within your breakdown. Those of us who were never at the top (or even close to it) don’t have the same “fall(?)” as those hair-extension-gals. I agree with your assessment that those women who were at/near the peak, are more likely to have that chip, or (in my experience) continue to strive for that previously held sex-symbol-like position whereby they spend an inordinate amount of time and energy competing and making horrible decisions, hoping, in some way to reclaim those lost positive feelings. Those feelings are addictive. Attention, love, lust and power (no matter how superficial the power) are highly addictive; And when mixed with alcohol, doubly so.

    This is not true of all, or even “most” women, but definitely a sizable number.

    @Bicentennial

    It’s those onstage interviews that kill the competition…that map shortage is still an issue in many classrooms in this Country…

    And btw…I am sure you would blow them all away in the swimsuit competition. :)

  218. @Stormcat,

    Disgruntled housecat? *LOL*

    too darn funny.

    @Toughlove,

    your post makes sense. I guess because I have and still win beauty pageants I never went through the missing what I had stage of beauty. I’ve ALWAYS known there are hotter chicks than I,..here’s where my personality and quick wit come in.

    I may tie them in the swimsuit category but I crush them in the onstage interview… 😉

  219. Stormcat says:

    B-Baby ~ Actually, I thought of a bunch of possabilities for DH, like designated hitter, deliquant houseguest, diluded heterosexual, disgusted histrionic, etc.

  220. Stormcat says:

    SD guru ~ actually she is 36

  221. BastIsisKali says:

    @TL>>>I agree with you completely. I used to be a bartender in a lovely little “hick” bar. It was a lot of fun actually. But I would notice some women acting similar to how you describe. Men do the same thing too; however I think their “chip” appears a little later than women. Unfortunately, in our society, women are often given the impression that by simply turning 30, everything starts to go south. I personally am ecstatic that I am now 30…but that’s me. Those “chips” are not worth the stress and frustration which they create when we hold onto them. Life is too short to spend it angry at the world (and especially yourself).

    Happy Monday everyone.

  222. ToughLove says:

    @Bicentennial

    Personal thoughts on the “chip” with 30-somethings: I noticed the same thing about 10 years ago in real life. The women I met in their 20’s were cool, chill, fun. Women in their late 40’s and over were cool, chill, fun. For some reason that mid 30’s to early 40’s demographic tended to be bey@tchs in a major way. It was so consistent; I started to seriously think about the “cause”. What I began to notice was the 20-something’s still had their “superpowers”, i.e. the ability to make men fulfill unreasonable requests with a wink and a smile. A hot 20-something sits at the top of the social food chain, even if all she’s accomplished in life is having a great body, hair extensions, and breast implants. When she walks into a room in a social environment, all eyes are on her, and she knows it. That attention carries a great deal of “power” and she takes full advantage of it. However, there is a shelf life. (Ahem, cough, cough). As she gets older, men don’t respond as enthusiastically to satisfy her every whim. Soon the attention that was focused on her in a social situation goes to someone younger. The “dark period” between mid 30’s to mid 40’s is when many women are almost cursed by the memories of the former “identity” and with it, thoughts of the life they were supposed to have because of those “superpowers”. And many fight an uphill battle trying to compete (on physical beauty alone) with the hot 20-somethings. Generally, after the mid-40’s, there’s an acceptance that things have changed. What I also noticed is women who have an identity outside of just their physical appearance are far better at dealing with this transition. If a woman has had a successful career or raised a healthy family, she may see herself as a doctor, lawyer, business owner, CPA, mom…and not just someone who USED to be the hottest thing on two legs. In those cases, her power comes from ALL of her attributes as a woman, not just her physical appearance.

    For the record, the absence of a “chip” is one of the reasons why I’m one of your fans, BiB.

  223. SD Guru re End of Page. It works thank you!

  224. carebear says:

    @SD Guru

    I feel like I’m posting to a group twitter account. But I’m home sick today so thank you all for giving me something to do. My current relationship will end in Dec because he is retiring to another country. We both knew this going into it. I know the search process can take 6 days or 6 months, so I’ve started ‘looking’ again….by posting a new profile. Is this against the rules or something (more rules I don’t know about)? He doesn’t expect me to be devoted, which is cool.

    And yeah I’ve blown off all the guys that say “lets have a drink and if we click we can go back to your place”….I would have no problem eventually inviting someone over for dinner and a movie in (which is a big deal since I don’t know what cooking is) but most certainly not the first go round. I have to wonder who he may have been with prior in order to develop that kind of…..comfort….with strangers. Hm.

  225. Stormy & NYC SB – I know. I used to inhabit that world of drugs, alcohol, bad relationships etc in my 20s. Not a pretty spot to be, and inherently unstable on a good day, but I managed to get my way out of it intact. Many stories, better left to be shared over a few glasses of red wine.

    I left that world a long time ago, thank god. I am actually just really curious to take a peek back at it again, almost just to see how stupid I was then.

  226. Stormcat says:

    PS Let’s not let curiosity kill the alleycat!!!

  227. Stormcat says:

    Alleycat ~ I agree with NYC SBs assessment, whether he tapped himself or OD’d accidently it still indicates that she was in a volatile relationship with him and makes me wonder about her. Not just emotional state drama and/or propensity to abuse drugs but presence of STD’s as well.

  228. NYC SB – I know, od’ing is big red flag, right? Topping himself is just as big a red flag.

    But it one of those things I am curious about. As I said in previous post, she has the body and looks, but I am not yet sure on the brain thing.

    I’ll know more at the end of Thursday night, but it will have to be a very special dinner to get me to follow her down the rabbit hole.

  229. Stormcat says:

    carebear ~ Well if I don’t count the five months that intervened between the 2nd and 3rd dates, My current SB and I dated weekly for several months before I even went in to her apartment. I thought that it was a little unusual but she, like you, is very private and independent so I understood and didn’t push. Eventually she bacame comfortable with me.

  230. @NCGent,

    I went back and reread the post, ok yes, the coordination of schedule IS a bear. I do non profit work and still having a hard time working out availability though I think I will be ok on that. However it’s just a matter of age/maturity/obligation as we get older, we have more STUFF TO DO, whether that’s charity work, church, education, career or just keeping up with life in general. Lazy summer days are the province of children and I do try to remember as a SB we are trying to give that idyllic feeling to the SD’s back in their life but well, LIFE gets in the way of living sometimes as they say! I’d still rather be in my 30’s and busy, I didn’t know jack in my 20’s compared to today so I’ll take the lumps that come with it.

    @Stormcat,

    Yes, DH is darling hubby, DW wife and DS/DD son or daughter. It differentiates from “the ball and chain” quickly when reading an internet post, the tone of the reference when used.

    @Carebear,
    I would be horrified to meet at my place. Well for obvious reasons (other people live here) but were I single I still would want my sanctuary. Maybe they are being cheap, I don’t know, but for me it would either be a fabulous hotel room, or their place if they’re not attached…and I would vote for the former since to my mind, it’s safer. Once an arrangement has carried on awhile, then I think you can become more comfortable with each other’s place if available, but starting out? no way. I would find that rude, but I am a very private person when it comes to when I want my privacy too. I turn off the cellphone, home phone, internet and everything and just get AWAY from it all. But not everyone can do that.

  231. NC Gent says:

    Carebear — you are exercising sound caution. It is inconsiderate and rude for an SD to invite themselves over. Maybe after you are more comfortable with them, you can meet at your place, but that is a personal choice for you.

  232. carebear says:

    ok major question, for anyone:

    In private (intimate) situations, where do you expect yourself and your sd/sb to meet?? As I’m still surfing the market (because my current relationship will end shortly), I’ve had several guys almost immediately invite themselves to my place. Its the rudest thing I’ve ever seen! To protect myself in all situations, I would never have anyone back at my place. I’ve only had a handful of friends over; I’m very private and independent. Am I too traditional/stuffy/guarded? Or is that just plain out impolite as I’m seeing it?

  233. NYC SB says:

    Michael – that’s a red flag… A bf who overdosed… I smell the drama from nyc

    • SD Guru says:

      @Stormcat

      Spent the weekend with my long lost SB. It was a fine time, but I still have that nagging feeling of hopeleness about us as a couple. When I dropped her off at the station I felt hollow and the rest of my night was bad.

      Remember in a NSA arrangement, you enjoy each other’s company when you’re together but you should have your own separate lives when you’re not. Treasure the moments you have with her but don’t let the feelings linger after you drop her off. Save it until next time you see her. That’s how NSA is supposed to work.

      I limit my search at 25-50 and have an affinity for the 35 -45 bracket.

      Isn’t your long lost SB in her mid 20’s?

      @Michael

      but there is no ‘skip to the bottom’ tab or keystroke.

      As with all things iphone, there is an app for that! It’s called “end of page” and it’s free. There are also other ways of doing it with javascripts and bookmarklets, but I won’t bore you with all that! :)

      she called me and apparently ex-bf topped himself or od’d. Probably true, and I am giving benefit of the doubt. Stroke 1 though.

      Like NYC SB said, I can smell drama coming even in the cool crisp mountain air (not the same mountain as Stormcat though). That should be an automatic ejection, not just strike one!

      @Carebear

      As I’m still surfing the market (because my current relationship will end shortly), I’ve had several guys almost immediately invite themselves to my place. Its the rudest thing I’ve ever seen!

      Why is your current relationship ending shortly? Your pots should not invite themselves to your place. Maybe you could consider it after you’ve met them several times and established trust, but certainly not from the get go.

      @Bicentennial Baby

      the coordination of schedule IS a bear… as we get older, we have more STUFF TO DO… but well, LIFE gets in the way of living sometimes as they say!

      This is similar to what I said about SB’s with children in the last blog (shown below). And since SB in their 30’s or older are more likely to have children, it becomes a major factor to consider for a pot SD.

      “Knowing whether a pot SB has children or not is a factor to consider in terms of her flexibility and availability. It’s not necessarily about prying into one’s personal life or safety. Understandably, all single moms have to put their kids first, and the pot SD has to recognize that and be able and willing to accommodate her schedule.”

      because we gals are quick to pass judgement on what is NOT acceptable treatment, that we have a chip or a man-hate on our shoulders.

      As you have seen in this blog and what SD’s see in some profiles, some SB’s do approach this with a chip on their shoulders for whatever reason. And the generalization as NC Gent and SincereSD pointed out is that it tends to happen more often with SB’s in their 30’s or older.

      Yes, DH is darling hubby

      I thought it meant deadbeat hubby? :)

  234. Ooops. Stroke 1 = strike 1.

  235. SD Guru – the iPhone has a soft keyboard, which is not shown while viewing. I cap tap the top bar to jump to the top, but there is no ‘skip to the bottom’ tab or keystroke.

    Stormy – she called me and apparently ex-bf topped himself or od’d. Probably true, and I am giving benefit of the doubt. Stroke 1 though.

  236. Stormcat says:

    AM ~ Hi Gorgeous good to see you

    B Baby ~ What is DH (I’m guessing Darling Husband) Anyway it’s definately not gender specific that cynicism increases with age. However, regarding Sincere and NC Gents’ posts I was quite puzzled by the logic but thought that they must be a bit younger than I so they go for a younger set than I do. I limit my search at 25-50 and have an affinity for the 35 -45 bracket. Either that or it is a difference in our goals as far as the type of relationship we are seeking.

  237. NC Gent says:

    Hi BCB — I guess I need to clarify. I didn’t find that women in their later 30s didn’t like men, but pretty much everything else Sincere said was dead on, but there are obviously exceptions, thankfully.

  238. Stormcat says:

    NYC SB ~ lol Thank you sweetheart! Very nice post! Good luck Tuesday. I’m going to be in Manhatan that night so maybe I should drop by your table and give you a little encouragement. :)

  239. Stormcat says:

    Alleycat ~ I’m usually the forgiving type, but family emergency or not, a simple text, e-mail, phone call “en route” to those with whom I have appointments, is still required. I forgave a pot who apologized for standing me up because she was “suddenly called out of the country” and then she stood me the second date too. I wish you better luck.

  240. @Sincere/NC Gent,

    Wow…so do a lot of us ladies in our 30’s seem to “not like men?”

    That’s sad, but maybe true to a degree. My own DH has mentioned that until recently, he would catch me at times making snarky comments about my friends’ boyfriends/sig others. Ok, I LOVE men…but I can see why another man would think that because we gals are quick to pass judgement on what is NOT acceptable treatment, that we have a chip or a man-hate on our shoulders. Maybe what’s interpreted (sometimes wrongly) as man-hating or an attitude is merely the fact a lot of ladies get to a certain age and realize they have to assert themselves to get what they want out of a relationship. This new realization leads to a lot of “girl, I wouldn’t put up with THAT for a minute!” conversations with your friends…unless of course the perp happens to be your own other half at which point you make up excuses for why he’s different and your girlfriends don’t want to call you any more. So I can see where that would be a turnoff and I try to watch for not communicating that type of attitude.

    Errands to run, more later, pot meeting underway soon so I have got to keep going to the gym.

  241. Stormcat says:

    Spent the weekend with my long lost SB. It was a fine time, but I still have that nagging feeling of hopeleness about us as a couple. When I dropped her off at the station I felt hollow and the rest of my night was bad. Wrote a little thing this morning.

    Restless After the Date
    by Stormcat

    Slept restlessly last night. . . dreams quite disturbing. I woke up a lot.
    Several times I felt like some person or animal was coming into the house. . . the darkness was inky, making breathing difficult, and I actually felt fear.
    At dawn, I awoke to a tremendous thunderstorm: the electric power went out, then downpour, then hail.
    I wish you were here to hold!
    It’s so much easier to be calmly strong when I have you to protect.

  242. Anna Molly says:

    Good Morning Everyone! Hope all of you had a good weekend!

  243. NC Gent says:

    Good morning all!

    BCB – -that is a very good success rate!

    Sincere — you echo my sentiments exactly, and I have noticed the same trend on SA regarding SBs. My ideal age range was mid-20s to mid-30s, but I basically gave up on SBs in their 30s for the same reasons you stated. I shifted my age range downward, and that is when I noticed a lot of p4p type SBs, which I have no interest. Mid-20s to early 30s would be my search range now….

    Have a great week everyone!

  244. SouthernGent2 says:

    Good Monday morning everyone.

  245. BrownSugar says:

    Hi All! I was on this site last year and found an absolutely amazing SD – thanks to all of your comments and discussions which I found absolutely invaluable! unfortunately I have now had to move away from the US which meant we “broke up” earlier this year… so back to square one. I’ve returned to the site but unfortunately theres not a lot of SDs here (evidenced by the lack of premium profiles). just wanted to vent… tnx for listening :)

  246. SD Guru – can you ask the blog gods if they can put a link in the blog heading that will take us directly to to comment box, or the bottom of each blog? I use an iPhone and I am sure many others use smartphones as well, and there is no end of page key. It is a real pain to scroll to the end of a long blogs, especially since sometimes the RSS feed doesn’t work.

    • SD Guru says:

      @Bicentennial Baby

      Maybe its because I’m new but I’m having a helluva time keeping up with the emails… I’ve gotten 120 views on my profile in 24 hours, but again, its probably because I’m new and it may die off.

      The amount of interest you’re seeing is partly due to your new profile status. Enjoy the attention while it lasts as it will probably start to slow down after a few weeks.

      I am very surprised by this, I thought only the “college babies” were going to have something to take to market.

      Isn’t it amazing once you make yourself available to the sugar world? :) For some, sugar dating can be a confidence booster, and for others maybe not. As you’re enjoying early success in “The Contact” stage, keep in mind anyone can put up a profile and call himself a SD but that doesn’t necessarily make it so. Most dialogs don’t get past this stage due to people being disrespectful and ignorant, and this is where the flakes, weirdos, time wasters should be identified and discarded. Good luck with your screening process as you progress toward “The Meet” stage!

      @Carebear

      Him: “why is she so happy? i think ill drop $X into your bank account”… And we had a great night. =)

      I’m glad it worked out well for you so far. You mentioned that the arrangement is fairly new, and you hardly have any rules or expectations. I’d suggest that you should discuss it at some point to make sure it will continue to work well over the longer term and not leaving it to chance.

      @Michael

      can you ask the blog gods if they can put a link in the blog heading that will take us directly to to comment box, or the bottom of each blog?

      Smartphone browsers should have a shortcut to go to the end of a web page. I don’t know what it is on iphone, for Blackberry it’s “b” for bottom and “t” for top.

  247. carebear says:

    @southern kate

    This is my second time posting on a ‘blog’….

    Being new at this as well, I had 5 failed attempts at having the ‘talk’ before I had one successful one and walked away with a smile on my face. I swear if this is what parents go through with their kids having the sex talk, I would never wish this awkwardness on anyone.

    My discussion went almost exactly as follows:

    he started kissing my neck on one side of the table (private room at a restraunt) and i said:
    Me: “go sit back down, we should talk”
    Him: “so whats on your mind”
    Me: “besides you, i have to ask, whats in it for me? i can have dinner and drinks with anyone i want….whats my incentive on being here with you?”
    Him: “you’re right, so what do you need”
    Me: “i dont need much, but i want a lot to make me happy, i want security without worrying so i can focus on myself and my goals. and in the meantime i want to walk around with a smile on my face leaving people to think—-”
    Him: “why is she so happy? i think ill drop $X into your bank account”

    And we had a great night. =)

    I have no other advice on how to conduct the conversation. This is my only successful one. I felt like I was in a move. Hope this helps.

    PS-I miss the south! I’m from there too but now in the NYC area. I too felt like that was where my shyness stemmed from with that topic. I can charm the pants off of anyone but my ‘selflessness’ keeps me from getting the job done. Be strong and confident even if you’re unsure of where you’re going….chances are most can’t tell the difference.

  248. BastIsisKali says:

    @Michael>> How do I find your blog?

  249. Handprints? Well, agreed, that is a VERY different matter, and perhaps a topic for another another discussion!

  250. Just to clarify, footprints are not left in 99% of cases…. leave them better than you found them, absolutely!

    But that other 1%? Grrrr. Please refer previous blog for further information.

  251. BastIsisKali says:

    @Michael>>> Well…I’m kind of into leaving footprints (or handprints) on the someones behind. 😉

  252. BastIsisKali

    In Australia, we grew up with the campsite rule of “take nothing but memories, leave nothing but footprints”.

    Applying this to relationships, I try and make sure that the footprint is not left on their behind as I kick them out the door…. depends on the person though! 😉

  253. BastIsisKali says:

    I like to observe the campsite rule in the majority of my relationships with others (be they intimate or otherwise); Leave them better than how you found them. I realize, this is not always 100% possible, but it is something I strive for. Hmm…perhaps I should put that in my profile.

  254. Evenin’ all

    Another lovely day here in Phoenix, 108. Trying to fill the vacancy left by SB #1, so I had a date with a pot SB, met for drinks at one of the resorts here (the Mission Palms in Tempe, just off Mill Ave – don’t bother…), and I txted the pot and told her I was dressing causal – shorts and a shirt. I ain’t getting dressed up in that heat! She was in a sundress as well, so all was good.

    VERY nice chat over a couple of glasses of a brave little chardonnay, so we have basic agreement on what we want to do. Both of us are going to sleep on it (no, not with each other – well not yet anyway), and have dinner Friday night, finalise the details if we want to and start moving forward soon after. 28, in a giving profession, smart and knows she wants to know more. Going back for her Masters in a year or so. So far, meets all the criteria of smart, cute, funny, motivated, has a brain and is using it etc. Looks like it could be kinds fun!

    The pot who stood me up on Friday emailed me yesterday – she had a family emergency and had to leave town in a hurry. She called me tonight as well, most apologetic, and we are going to meet for dinner Thursday night. Yoga instructor, 31, lived in Asia modeling for 3+ years, Europe for 2 years so has a good world view, great body but not sure yet on the brain thing. But she did choose a great restaurant for dinner so she has good taste! She seems quite keen to meet and talk.

    Seeing SB #2 Wednesday, or her friend if she is busy….

    Life is good.

    BiBaby – sounds like you are getting some good success, and I think it is primarily due to the way you approached the process. Wrote a great profile, tested it out with some people, added good photos and sent it out. You should be in marketing! Congratulations.

  255. @Midwest

    Many thanks for the heads up by email girl…I *did* get an “invite” from your person in question and glad I have my sugar sisters keep an eye for each other. I will be happy to do the same.

    I have a meeting in the works, so I may be joining the SB club, we’ll see! No details, a lady doesn’t tell all she knows…but I feel much more ready to have the face to face conversation with all the helpful things I have learned here. Almost had the “conversation” with a pot today about allowance/arrangement, knocked out some of the important issues but still working on the particulars. I think it best we may want to see how chemistry is and if it’s as good as it seems to be going, then see if we want to discuss that sort of thing at that time.

    I feel sort of weird discussing too much too soon BUT the other party brought it up, and is not afraid to let me know that mutual benefit is also for me too. I appreciate that honesty and they’ve had a SB before with great results…so I am thankful to the gal who walked in the shoes before me for leaving things with class the right way! Whew! I hope to do the same, whether I proceed or not…I think it makes things easier for all my sugar family for us to act the right way.

    @Toughlove,
    Now, now, no win on the sugarbowl yet, just now entering the contest, so to speak! I promise I’ll share my success stories if I must–you know my email! Don’t make me call you out on the Buenos Ares story. :)

  256. Green Eyed Sugar Lady says:

    @BastIsisKali love your screenname!

    As for the question on how casual a first meet should be… my preference is for something on the casual side- coffee if it’s in the day, cocktail/glass of wine if evening. I want to be able to focus fully on conversation with the other person without possibly being distracted by food, surroundings, etc.

    I had three meets set up for last week… the first one didn’t pan out due to his being busy with travel. Maybe we’ll meet up at a later time but nothing is set up yet.

    #2 I met for coffee and took a walk in the park after- I really like this man, he is reasonably attractive, great personality, and we were very comfortable with one another. The trouble is he is new to all of this and when he inquired what kind of financial arrangement I was looking for he was obviously surprised at the amount I was given in the past. I don’t believe he is fabulously wealthy, and as he is married he must be careful about how much he can spend without his wife knowing. So he sent me an email a day or so later and named an amount that was quite low…but at the same time I don’t feel “lowballed” as I think he’s a person of integrity and was being honest about what he could really do. I let him know that because of our good mutual connection I am inclined to accept, but that I probably would not become exclusive, and asked him to think it over and let me know. So we’ll see.

    #3 lives in another state but comes here on business. I met him at the lounge of the hotel he stays in while in town. (ordinarily I shy away from doing that, but made the suggestion since we were meeting on the later side and it was a weeknight.) In retrospect, I probably shouldn’t have. This man is wealthy, and I was actually very attracted to him BUT I did make it clear that I was not prepared to be intimate the first time we met. He tried anyway, and no mention of “sugar” was made even though I did work an opening into our conversation. I came home tired from fending off advances and a little frustrated as well.

    I am trying to keep work/life/sugar balance by doing the odd regular dating as time allows, and it’s ironic that in my non-sugar dating I date younger men who are usually quite successful and well off financially. I would never dream of turning these into sugar although I do let them pay for our dates.

  257. BastIsisKali says:

    Sheesh…I take a couple of days off from checking out the blog and the comments just kept coming!

    I don’t think I actually answered the questions posed to all of us in initially, so I guess I should do that.

    Regarding 1rst meets, considering I do not date much I’m not sure what a “traditional 1rst date” is supposed to be like. Someone above was speaking about their feelings of awkwardness when the SD brings up or offers compensation on the 1rst meet. I agree with what you said. In my mind, the first meet/date should provide an opportunity for the two parties to determine if it really will be a good match, whether for the short or long term. Since I have not had any SD meets yet, I am only going on what my gut tells me, and that is, a casual meet, where you can determine (in a safe setting) that the SD/SM/SB is who they say they are, and if the chemistry developed over emails/phone can stand up to a face to face meeting.

    I don’t think the casualness of the above scenario has anything necessarily to do with the “arrangement” aspect; I would treat any other first meeting with someone over the internet in a similar fashion. Am I wrong? Totally oblivious? Could be…

    And as far as the other questions, since I have no SD/SM experience as of yet….I cannot comment. Oh well.

    I hope you all are having a great weekend. Now, I am off to pack up some more boxes. Fun!

  258. It’s very quiet here today … too quiet …

  259. Sherri says:

    I’ve never read the book, but I guess if you get ten thousand views a day you’d need an assistant to weed through the emails for you!

  260. ToughLove says:

    @Bicentennial

    Congratulations, beauty queen

  261. @Sherri,

    Thanks for the tip, I hadn’t even thought of that! I didn’t reply, I hate to be rude but I find it annoying to get a short “holla at ya” email that doesn’t at least mention something in my profile and how it connects to me and them.

    Fortunately I’ve only gotten 2 of those. Maybe its because I’m new but I’m having a helluva time keeping up with the emails. I’ve gotten 22 emails and at least 10 of them are truly insightful, decent looking guys with something going for them and (it seems) the attitude of a gentleman. I am also surprised by the physical looks of many, in a good way. I was expecting a lot of 60yr old men as SD’s, everyone contacting me is actually in their 40’s! So we won’t look weird going out somewhere. I am very surprised by this, I thought only the “college babies” were going to have something to take to market. *LOL*

    I have a sense of humor and that seems to be a big plus…the guys who can handle that and be witty in turn do well with me and I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the charm of several of them. I’m going to have to figure out what to do to handle the emailing volume, I don’t know how you work and do that too. I’ve gotten 120 views on my profile in 24 hours, but again, its probably because I’m new and it may die off.

    Anyone read the book “Sugarbabe” by Holly Hill?? She supposedly got TEN THOUSAND views in several days! Now she was in Australia, and I think they only have one SB site, but still, that’s a LOT> Wow. I can’t even begin to imagine how she handled that…

  262. Sherri says:

    Hi everyone, so much to catch up on!

    @bicentennial – I think you should ignore the offers to paypal you before even speaking. They’re probably scammers and it could be dangerous to interact with them. I tend ignore the obvious carpet bombers if there’s no interest in their profile. If someone says something that looks unique to my profile I’ll send a polite “thanks but no thanks” and I’ll say why (if the reason is lack of physical attraction I might not be so blunt).

    About the conversion rate from email to arrangement, my experience has been slightly different that what the SDs described. Only a small percentage of emails have turned to dates, but I’ve gotten an offer for an arrangement at the end of or immediately following every 1st date. A lot of times the chemistry wasn’t there on my end, though.

    @noledgeseeker – You brought up something I’ve been thinking about. That is, how to tell if someone is really interested in something ongoing or they’re just eager to get to the intimacy. I’m new to this but, I’ve yet to have an arrangement last longer than 2 months so I feel like some guys plunk down the cash to get to what they want but then the attention span doesn’t last that long.

    My ideal is 6mos to a year or until I finish grad school. Any tips out there for figuring out who’s in it for a while? I do ask how long their last relationship lasted. I also say in my profile that I want it to be ongoing.

  263. Southern Kate says:

    For me, a southern gal, I go nicely dressed, without expectations. I have had potSD compensent me, I suppose out of habit(?). I don’t discuss money, and I am who I am. The topics have covered everything from business, to kids and all in between. I would rather meet over a meal, as I am not a huge drinker, and don’t like sitting in bars waiting on someone unless it there is a good band with good friends.

    Although I am rather new, I really don’t like the “money discussion”. That part I treat like a business (can anyone give me some tips on how to get over the awkwardness- I have too much southern lady in me to make those discussions comfortable and graceful), but being compensated for my first meet is still awkward. I use it to see if there is any mutual chemistry. Besides, I do need to get out more. Working up a fledgling business and finishing a degree tends to turn me into a hermit! A nice dinner with a good companion, and I am all about that. If there is chemistry, so much the better and we may “get down to business of expectations”. But I would rather not on a first meet.

    From old habits, I do make a very quick safe call/or text. I will never go to someone’s “place” after a first meet, no matter how much electricity is flowing.
    I am in this to find a potSD, and fun companion. Not to get laid. That comes later, if at all. I have had some that just want the witty company, and attention. That is fine with me to. It is the relationship, not strictly the sex.

  264. sb-emy says:

    hello loves,

    I met up with a sugar daddy today, he’s offered a 300 a meeting based on my “inexperience”. Sad thing is, I know he can teach me how to please a man etc, and he is a very very shrewd, intelligent cultured man. I want to demand higher but knowing that I have another sugar daddy under my belt – i don’t want to lose this new sd by asking for higher. He won’t budge, but he’s the best grammarian there is in my state.

    emy

  265. @SDGuru,

    hi…I will definitely check out the 5 stages of sugar then!! need all the advice I can get. :)

    I’m a bit dismayed the success rate is so low. Maybe I’ll be lucky, I really like 2 of the gentlemen I’ve been emailing and one wants to chat by phone tomorrow and I’m ameanable to that very much too.

    I have an etiquette question: If I get an email from a pot with a profile # but the email is very brief…i.e, hey saw your profile, why don’t you check out mine?….or offering to immediately Paypal you (um, no), etc P2P type things…is it rude to just not reply? Should I acknowledge receipt of the email at least and a thanks, but no thanks or thanks, but I’m in discussion stages with someone (whether or not that’s true?).

    I’ve only had one person do this but I am not sure whether it’s bad form to simply not respond, or if its a profile that I just dont’ think would work (too much partying, too far away, or whatever), how do I nicely handle that?

    What do all you SD’s do when a SB contacts you and you look at her profile (or grammar) and decide to pass? Is it better to say nothing or to be brief but polite that something else is underway? Ideas???

  266. Noledgeseeker says:

    @Red – refresh she replied August 14, 2010 at 6:56 pm : )

  267. Yaz says:

    Evening! :)

    Just got home from a non-sugar date!
    I went to see the Expendables and I loved it!!! Dont want to give any spoilers but I would recommend everyone to go see it!
    I guess The Expendables is to guys what Sex and The City is to women lol! Action packed!!! Jason Statham was looking hummm yummy! 😀

    (Didnt really understand the 5 min appearances from Bruce Willis and Arnold Schwarznegger but oh well…lol)

    Off to bed now…Love you all :)

  268. Reddamsel38 says:

    Well said Dandelion Wine two different kinds of right.
    Good evening sugarland!
    Does anybody know where Midwest went to? I thjought I saw a post from her saying she will be gone for a few but I’m not sure. She was helping me with my profile. AAAAggghhh! I haven’t sent out any messages as of yet. Maybe I shouldn’t with my photo. Not too sure about that. Don’t like it really.
    I really would like to go sugar surfing. :(

    • SD Guru says:

      All this talk about love is giving me a headache, so I’ll refrain from commenting on that subject and leave it to the experts! :)

      @LadyIntim

      Can someone update me on that very interesting case of prominent mistress worried about getting sued and losing her rep over an ex SD’s messy divorce?

      That was from Lori, she added that her former SD was abusive and some from the blog suggested she should team up with his wife in the legal proceedings. But that was the last we heard from her.

      @Bicentennial Baby

      Do guys see it if I add them to favorites?? Or if I click and read their SD profile??

      Yes and yes, with a premium membership.

      I have had nearly 60 views and 8 emails with 4 hours of approval. Is that a lot?

      As I mentioned when I gave you feedback on your profile, I don’t think you’ll have any problem attracting the attention of pot SD’s. However, converting that attention to meeting in person and then progressing to an arrangement can be a lengthy process that will test your patience and perseverance. Or you could be very lucky and have the perfect SD fall into your lap. Take a look at “The Five Stages of Sugar” which described different stages in the sugar world and the issues you may face at each stage. Good luck and enjoy the process!

      @SincereSD

      For the record, my age range search is from mid-20 to mid-30′s. My observations about age range are listed below. Please keep in mind that these are stereotypes based on my experience and ymmv.

      I generally agree with your observations and we may have some similar experiences in the sugar world. We should compare notes over drinks someday! :)

      there are a lot of changes to the demographics of the SB profiles on SA since my last search a year ago.

      I generally agree with your observations about the changing demographics as well. I’d say the percentage of “dormant” profiles is much higher than 10%. As for the carpet bombing approach, both SD and SB’s can fill their dance cards with meeting pots every day of the week if they want. That just goes to show knowing how to screen effectively is even more important now.

      @Michael

      Plus my little friend in Vegas keeps pinging me, but I aint going there again.

      You never told us what happened in Vegas… details?

      A friend of mine is trying to set me up with a billionaire in Texas… except this pot sugar mama is 15 years younger…

      I’m sure this pot sugar mama could use more than one SB. So why don’t you check her out and report back, some of the SD’s here probably wouldn’t mind a role reversal! :)

      @MizzI

      Bottom line, if he cant give me money to jump out the car to grab a newspaper and water, hows he going to give me money to pay rent?

      Sounds like this is a case of mismatched expectations which happens very often in the sugar world. You can keep trying, but chances are you’ll just end up wasting your time and getting more frustrated. Perhaps it’s time to move on.

      @NY Gent

      half of the meets resulted in more or less acceptance by both of us that there wasn’t enough chemistry/connection to enter an arrangement

      Thanks for sharing your analysis. Depending on how picky a SD is and the age group he’s targeting, the rate of success could be even lower than the 5% you experienced. In addition, of the 5% where you both agreed to enter an arrangement, you didn’t say how long the arrangements last. Sometimes both parties enter into an arrangement with good intentions, but then for whatever reason it still doesn’t work out and ends sooner than expected.

      In my case I’d say less than 1 out of 10 I corresponded with by email end up meeting in person. Of those, less than 1 out of 5 make it past the first meeting. Overall, less than 2% of the pot SB’s I met in person resulted in an arrangement that lasted six months or longer.

      I’m not counting one arrangement I was in without knowing it (strange story)

      Please do tell! :)

  269. Noledgeseeker says:

    @Carebear I fell into my first arrangement like you did. $4500 and 2 months later he stopped emailing out of the blue. This can and does happen all the time though regardless of how they started. I think as you have more experience you will find you get a feel for the ‘dance’ and how to tango with each partner. Don’t worry about what you are or aren’t doing if everything seems good. Just DO be careful and DON’T be stupid and learn from the blog and your experiences.

    : )

  270. Midwest SB says:

    Reddamsel- your profile gets better every time! You do have some punctuation and spelling errors. It’s always good to write your profile in word where it can auto-correct those. Then you copy/paste your well-written profile into SA. I have some suggestions I wouldn’t mind sharing offline. Let me know how to reach you. Work on some full body pics and perhaps an abstract picture that shows off your best asset discreetly (legs, curves, lips, eyes, etc).

  271. Dandelion Wine says:

    @ToughLove, let’s see… Athletic enough to teach self-defense, smart enough to teach chess, sensitive enough to understand complex emotional responses, honorable enough to attempt to live ethically.. Have I missed anything? :)

    Indeed. Maybe that’s why I find Wuthering Heights deeper and more raw. In life, the tragedy isn’t a conflict between right and wrong, but between two different kinds of right.

  272. Carebear says:

    Hi blog/forum/threader people! yall seem really intense into these posts….as much as I’d love to read the entire thing, I skimmed at took in glimpses of it. Everyone seems to be almost a ‘professional’ at this stuff….

    I’m in the midst of my first ‘sd’ relationship in the nyc area……it was almost effortless, and we hardly have any rules/expectations. during our second meet, i drew the line and in a round about way said ‘whats in it for me’…..he then cut a huge check and we had a great rest of the evening. since then we’ve met again and he now deposits into my account. i dont rush it or push it, but it seems like according to everyone on here, i’m doing this the wrong way.

    any advice so i don’t get screwed?

    i’m also sticking close to this site as i know he’s retiring in dec to canada and our relationship will end. while the donations are large, i can only save and invest so much till i know its over, and i plan on being in school for another 3 years.

    so as i start to re-interview sd’s……what are the basic rules? i see comments like 1st date this, 2nd date that, 3rd date shoes, 4th date concerts blah blah blah…..i didn’t realize the rest of the ‘sugar world’ had so much maintenance to it…..i’m scared =(

  273. ToughLove says:

    @DW
    I think that comment could be made about most romance writers of that period.

  274. ToughLove says:

    @DW
    Understood. Appreciate positive male role model comment. Actually taught chess to kids in a similar environment years ago when I had more time. Assisted as a women’s self-defense instructor years prior to that, same motivation. Part of that “code” of manhood mentioned earlier is mentoring, serving by example. Agreed, abuse is a very in-depth subject.

  275. NYGent says:

    BiCentennial: that’s a very good preliminary success rate, continued good luck. It’s been a subject of discussion here before, however, just how difficult it is to go from initial email to first meet to additional meets to arrangement.

    As a little experiment to see what the stats show, I did the following: putting aside emails and focusing only on situations where we got to a first actual in person meet, what happened? Out of roughly 40 initial in person meets with pots, I’ve progressed to 2 actual allowance arrangements. I further broke it down into categories of why the other 38 didn’t get that far, either because (1) SB wanted to proceed further and I didn’t; (2) I wanted to but she didn’t (3) neither of us did; or (4) both wanted to. The results:

    (1) SB yes, me no: 35%

    (2) me yes, SB no: 10%

    (3) both no: 50%

    (4) both yes (the 2 arrangements): 5%

    I’m not counting one arrangement I was in without knowing it (strange story)

    So, half of the meets resulted in more or less acceptance by both of us that there wasn’t enough chemistry/connection to enter an arrangement (some of these went to a second or even third meet before it became clear it was a “no go.”)

    I wonder how these percentages compare with other peoples’ experiences both on the site and, by comparison, IRL.

  276. TexasSugah says:

    Hi all,

    @Michael – You know I think that all the buzz about sugarbabes on low rent talk shows like Tyra are what’s getting all the attention. Younger girls usually watch shows like that, get an idea, and then try to jump on the band wagon.

    I’m enjoying talking with my SD. We still haven’t met because of his career and all what’s going on in my life. He’s very patient and we talk daily. I’m shocked that I met him on this site. One of his comments was that the ladies that he met online would try to use him like a wallet. A couple of emails and an allowance request or just a out and out gimme situation. I can’t imagine the nerve of people who barely know your name to ask you for thousands of dollars.

  277. Just a new member question here, but…

    What is a decent number of profile views and/or contact emails?

    I have had nearly 60 views and 8 emails with 4 hours of approval. Is that a lot?

    I will say I am very happy with the quality of men contacting me…all but one (who wanted to “holla at me” when he’s in town) are perfect gentlemen, at least thus far, and seem very intelligent and kind.

  278. DorkyGuy says:

    @DW, totally agree

    @Stormy, love isn’t a relationship… I worded my post poorly (and now regret it). But I think we have a fundamental difference in the way we define love that explains our disagreement.

    I believe that love has very little to do with feelings… love is a long-term choice we make. In fact, love is best observed when we choose to love even when the feelings aren’t there (as feelings do wax and wane over the long term in any relationship). When you stand by your alcoholic wife/child through treatment even though you don’t like the person she’s become…. etc… you get the idea.

    And even with that kind of love, I believe there need to be conditions. Otherwise, you end up enabling the kind of behavior DW describes.

    But I do totally get (and agree) with what you are saying about needing to feel a fondness, affection, and strong emotional connection. Those emotions though are the icing on the cake, not the actual cake. I guess that’s why I find the sugar world appealing. I know I can’t have the cake right now, so I might as well try to satisfy my hunger with icing.

    @DW again… totally agree… already said it once, but it’s worth repeating.

  279. Dandelion Wine says:

    And talking about Heathcliff, I view Jane Eyre as a happy “hollywood ending” rewrite of Wuthering Heights, with a bit of Heathcliff in both Jane and Rochester. In that aspect, Charlotte is the quintessential romantic, always looking to gentrify the beast and to uncover the obscured beauty

  280. Dandelion Wine says:

    @ToughLove, the problem with abuse is that it doesn’t start with some guy (rich OR poor) smacking his woman, and that physical isn’t the only kind of abuse there is.
    It is usually a gradual process, and most abusers have some sort of modus operandi, not unlike (in some respects) the methodologies discussed in the Art of Seduction. Actually, abusers very often ARE charming, or at least “normal”, which is why it is not simply a matter of sanity.
    If you are really interested in the subject and have a few hours to spare, I can think of nothing better than volunteering at your local Battered Women and Children shelter. The psychological damage to the children is heartbreaking, and they need a healthy male role model.

  281. MizzI says:

    Okay guys I have a dilemma. PotSD has been a gentleman. We’re at hand shaking or a hug intimacy level. Hes spent under $200 on me, only one item was something I really wanted. I havent gotten what I asked for yet and Im not even confident I will.

    What I asked for in the beginning is to be moved into a larger place. I want to stay in a particular area. He made it seem like he could really help with this (hes into real estate) but he didnt make it happen. Ive stressed the importance of this being what I want and seems he just doesnt get it. He buys me shoes… nice gesture but it almost angers me bc I dont need shoes. I mentioned things I need and things I like. He offers to buy me a purse… uggh! Bc I didnt get the house and doesnt look like I will… Ive started looking at a new job (I was going to work from home but needed the bigger place =( ..). The new job Im looking at is in some nowhere town a long long drive away. So I was saying to him how I need to maintenance my car first before I drive out there. I hoped hed offer to pay for that but he did ask if I wanted him to do that with me. Means I dont have pay for the gas so sure I was happy about that. I am probably doing bad at communicating also I think he has me confused with his last SB. He enjoys spending time with me, eat dinner .. go to the cinema. I think I could enjoy it more if I wasnt having this feeling that what I actually want isnt being given. No offence to him but seems he is under the impression that I feel like these dinners and cinemas are a treat. How I feel is my accompanying him is his treat.

    I noticed anything he gets me he pays for it. IE one time we stopped at a gas station and he’d said what he wanted so I was under the impression I was getting out to get it. It almost seemed like he was going to hand me cash but then he didnt. Another time, I told him I needed something and he said “okay do blah blah and Ill pay for it”. Only its an ordering type thing where you need to pay first, so I had to hunt down a place that didnt require you to pay first. I still havent been able to get this particular item I asked for because when we finally do meet up the place is closed of course. Its just frustrating. He wants to travel and Ive already canceled once on him with a trip. Im not settled anywhere & I have no job… fuk traveling. I just cant be excited about much of anything when I have bills I dont know how Im going to pay. He wants to blow however much amount of money on a trip. All I can think about is how happy Id be if hed just give me that money so I can get my things in order.

    I havent came right out and asked “why cant I just take the money and get it myself so that we dont have to line our schedules up?”. I havent asked that because I get the feeling he enjoys it immensely… maybe even gets turned on to be the one who pays for it. IDK! haha

    Bottom line, if he cant give me money to jump out the car to grab a newspaper and water, hows he going to give me money to pay rent?

  282. Except this pot sugar mama is 15 years younger… 😉

    Always on the lookout for good opportunities! 

  283. cleo says:

    geeze no one ever tries to set me up with billionaires… *g* guess you’re interviewing sugar mama’s and sugar baby’s huh?

  284. Plus my little friend in Vegas keeps pinging me, but I aint going there again.

    A friend of mine is trying to set me up with a billionaire in Texas, so I may have to do a trip down there in the next couple of weeks. I think I will be breaking my “only locals” rule for that one….

    Oh and an old friend of mine is coming to town in 10 days or so for a few days ….

    I guess Alleycat is an appropriate name, huh.

  285. LadyIntim – nope, no contact from either side. I am so over it. Well, not really but I am keeping away.

    Had a lunch date with a potSB on Friday, she stood me up! We agreed on a good place for lunch, I texted her in the morning to confirm etc etc but she was a no-show, and wouldn’t answer my call or texts. Oh well, her loss.

    Talking to another potSB, probably will meet this weekend or early in the week. Cute, 28 but a little bit too enthusiastic. I think she may turn into a problem, but I’ll let you know after I meet her.

    Plus am going to hook up with SB #2 for the day on Tuesday, or her friend if #2 is busy….

  286. SincereSD – I have noticed a trend towards younger SBs signing up here in AZ.

    Phoenix and Tucson are both university towns, so that may have something to do with it, but especially at the start of summer vacation, there was hardly anybody over 25 signing up! I guess the girls all wanted low-effort, well-paid work for the summer as SBs…. there are still a lot of short-term or P4P offers out there, as well as the usual “help me I have no money” profiles.

    There are few profiles in AZ for SBs over 30, which is my target market. There are a lot of stunning women in their early 20s, but I want to be out in public with my SB, and some things you just can’t explain away…. plus since I am a single parent with a really smart kid, I have to be careful how things are presented.

  287. SincereSD says:

    It’s been an interesting search so far. There are a lot of changes to the demographics of the SB profiles on SA since my last search a year ago. Here’s what I’ve noticed so far:

    1. Significantly more profiles looking for p4p or short term. It seems to be more popular amongst the younger SB.

    2. Growing trend towards women looking for conventional LTR or marriage, as well as, non-sexual relationships. While the numbers are not significant, they are noticeable.

    3. Large growth in SA membership. My estimates are that SA gained 500k members in just 4 months which is about double the rate of the previous year.

    4. Many profiles (10%?) are not used after they are setup or after the first week.

    5. Widespread use of carpet bombing. Many pots I’ve talked to have received over 100 emails within the first week of posting their profile. They said it’s a full time job just keeping up with the volume of inquires. Wonder which idiot exposed that strategy to the world?

    Can anyone else add comments or observations to my list?

  288. cleo says:

    Sincere: some of us unmarried and pushing 40 sb’s have utterly simple lives and very little debt…

    but your generalisations are not so far off :)

  289. SincereSD says:

    Hmmm … going back to sleep and signing for remedial proof reading lessons!

    Wishing everyone a great weekend.

  290. SincereSD says:

    Argh, need more coffee … point #2 above should read:

    2. I like women who are fit and well toned. Unfortunately this tend to disadvantage women in their 30′s due work and motherhood time pressures but exercise and a healthy diet does wonders to slow down aging and maintain tone.

  291. SincereSD says:

    luckyms88 says: To all the SD’s out there: do all you guys have ageitis. Is this all about the superficial attraction? Are you only looking for SB’s that are in their 20′s going to school and needing help with expenses? Do you not realize that there are older woman that need help too.

    While it’s true that most of my SB have been younger, I have had relationships with women in their early to mid-thirties. I look for fit and chemistry as much as attractiveness so the age criteria is less important to me. For the record, my age range search is from mid-20 to mid-30’s.

    My observations about age range are listed below. Please keep in mind that these are stereotypes based on my experience and ymmv.

    1. Age is just a number and lot an indication of maturity. I have met childish 36yo and mature 22yo women.

    2. I like women who are fit and well toned. Unfortunately this tend to favor women in their 30’s with work and motherhood but exercise and a healthy diet does wonders to slow down aging and maintain tone.

    3. Having a large perceived age gap between the SD and SB can be awkward in social settings. While I look much younger than my actual age, I get a lot of funny looks while on a date with younger SB. There has been written blogs about younger SB needing to dress more conservatively on SD dates.

    While I looking started my search looking for someone in their low to mid-30’s, my favorite pot is slightly below my preferred age range. Why, do you ask, does this happen?

    A. Supply and demand – The majority of women on SA are fairly young compared some of the other sugar dating sites.

    B. Attitude – Most women in in their thirties have more complicated lives whether it is restarting their career, divorce, custody, higher debt, etc. While they don’t exhibit the “entitlement” attitude of younger SB, I’ve found they tend to have more drama or a somehow negative/jaded attitude towards men.

    C. Availability – This is by far the major reason I have not been successful finding a relationship with someone in their 30’s. Complications around balancing work, children and other of life’s priorities make it done to schedule a date. I have 3 great pots in their low 30″s but have virtually given up trying to co-ordinate schedules with any of them.

  292. Stormcat says:

    Love is not a relationship, it is an emotion, a way of feeling. Love is the motivation for a relationship just as hate or indifference , also emotions, can be the motivation for a hate relationship or a relationship of intentional advoidance respectively. Love for another is inherently unconditional, you either have it or you don’t. It is the relationship that is conditional. But my post wasn’t about that, my poat was about the presence of love being a requirement for me to have a sexually intimate relationship, and questioning the reality of my capacity to have two or more such relationships still being based on love. I used the example of parental love to illustrate a persons capacity to love multiple others.

  293. ToughLove says:

    @DW

    Nice! I’ll see your Bertha and raise you one Heathcliff (staying with the whole Bronte theme). Seriously, by “crazy” I mean destructive to self or others. It seems to rear its head in cases of abuse where some guy (rich OR poor) has just smacked the holy living sh*t out of his wife/girlfriend and she refuses to leave because “she loves him”. In that moment, it is HER sanity that comes into question.
    With regard to the children seeing other people at 18, the desire to “see others” in that context is part of the “child rearing process”. (Not wanting to see anyone other than the parents at adulthood is often viewed as dysfunctional.) Further, the “child” brings others into the fold and extends the original parental love through subsequent generations (i.e. Thanksgiving or Christmas at grandma’s house.) Damn these long posts, damn them all to hell…

  294. Reddamsel38 says:

    Good Morning Sugars!!

    Midwest where are you? My profile has been approved, what do you think about it now? Anyone else is welcomed to comment. I could use all the feedback I can get. I want to go sugar surfing!

  295. man it’s late!

    Ok guys and gals…I did it! I’ve sent in my profile, I’m awaiting approval!! I’m able to view profiles and such.

    Big question: Do guys see it if I add them to favorites?? Or if I click and read their SD profile??

    I’m too shy to send an email yet, esp since I don’t have my profile up yet, but don’t want to lose some of the ones I’m seeing. I don’t think they can see my pics if I’m not approved yet. Almost all are orange, but I know that means they likely have 600 SB’s contacting them. Maybe if they see “who” clicked on them and added them, they might contact me? I’m totally new to this.

    There seems to be a LOT of fish in the DC sea I notice! Also, I am putting in 3 pics, so I hope that makes me pop up in searches. I blurred my photos a lot more for privacy. I can always send great ones once there’s a connect. my profile cut down some still seems longer than a lot of people’s but I think it conveys what it needs to. We’ll see! I think all the suggestions from everyone here will be invaluable. Off to dreamland

  296. Dandelion Wine says:

    Dorky Guy, there are plenty of people who stay in miserable relationships for 30-40 years (longer than most people live with their parents!) and that has nothing to do with love. relationship =/= love
    I think I see what Storm is saying (or maybe not)
    Boundaries and conditions are good, but with *other* people.
    With the people you love it is almost better to skip the boundaries and conditions discussion, and just allow them to express how they feel about you through their actions. It might be more painful to not feel in control of the situation, and it might take some self-control to not inject any artifice yourself, but when you are in love, really in love – all the effort seems totally worth it. (even if only in retrospect, as in wishing you haven’t tried to apply the “tried-and-true” template)

  297. NYC SB says:

    Just for you stormy

    Should 1st sugar meets be less casual than traditional 1st dates because of the negotiation/arrangement aspect?

    I treat both with the same respect. Of course, it appears that the competition in the sugar bowl is much fiercer. This causes many SBs to put more time and effort. I meet most my pots after work, so usually I am in my work attire. If they like me in that then we will have no further issues when I dress up. Negotiations are usually reserved for the second meeting. I make it clear through emails that I am looking for financial support. I do not discuss dollars and cents prior to meeting. Usually the first meeting is to explore chemistry. If all is well negotiations take place at the second date.

    Have you ever thought twice about the way you presented yourself to a potential sugar? Any regrets? Any success stories or tips?

    Luckily for me, most SDs in NYC like the career look. I tend to emphasize that I am low key and casual. I tend to keep aloof in the beginning stages… allow them to chase me. Apparently, this sets me apart from most SBs who are offended if their email is not returned within the hour. I am very blunt and straight forward. Most SDs associate that with honesty and being drama free. The PJs realize quickly that they wont be able to pull their antics on me and poof. Fine by me :)

    How has your sugarlife been lately?
    Can’t say that I have been looking… Seems like old SDs keep reappearing in my life lately… I took new pictures which has been generating a great deal of interest on a different site. Which means that I will revamp and open a new profile on SA next week and see what happens… caviat to it all being possibly reconnecting with an old SD… I guess all will be figured out over a 9 course meal and fine wine on Tuesday :)

  298. DorkyGuy says:

    gah, sorry everyone, didn’t realize how long that post was until after I posted it.

    Long posts are a bad, bad habit of mine, that I’m trying to break.

    Back to the fun and frivolity!

  299. and down the rabbit hole I go again …..

  300. DorkyGuy says:

    lol, DW, I was trying to keep my post short, so I skipped over a lot of nuance.

    I suppose what I could have said “unconditional relationship” instead of “unconditional love”, and that would have been closer to the point I was trying to make.

    I was responding to Stormy, and my point was that conditions and boundaries are often healthy, and shouldn’t necessarily been seen as a fly in the ointment.

    On the other side, having no conditions and no boundaries often leads to heartbreak and disaster.

    This is true even in a parent/child relationship. There are limits to how far the relationship can be pushed.

    I know a lady whose teen son is involved in drugs and crime, and is stealing from the family. His actions have caused her to lose jobs, and she faces the possibility of losing her other children because she can’t pay the bills and this son stole and wrecked the family car. Worse, he’s taking one of his younger brothers under his wing, and leading him into that lifestyle.

    Does she continue to love him? Sure. Will she continue to pray for him every day? Absolutely. However, she faces unbelievably difficult choices, and I wouldn’t fault her if she chose to give him up to the state.

    And if I had to bet, I’d guess that his current behavior has a lot to do with *not enough* boundaries and conditions… not because she didn’t love him unconditionally enough.

  301. Dandelion Wine says:

    Dorky Guy, for 1) you are assuming some kind of a relationship.
    There doesn’t have to be. You *can* be in love with someone and never speak with him/her again. Maybe it is clear to you the object of your affection doesn’t and never will feel the same, or maybe he/she is fighting a personal battle and you realized there’s no place there for you, except as a casualty of war. You love him/her, but you also love yourself and so you walk away.
    But if you are a kind of person that doesn’t fall in love with a lot of people, the rare one that does make your heart beat faster is pretty special.
    He/she doesn’t become any less special just because he/she doesn’t love you.
    Plenty of people don’t love you, do you treat them poorly because of it? Do you start despising them? Do you automatically assume that they only show interest in you because they want to use you?

  302. NYC SB says:

    Tough love – yes it indeed is a great book on different seduction approaches throughout times…

  303. Dandelion Wine says:

    @ToughLove, parents and children have a different relationship dynamic than lovers. Most parents have decidedly more power than their children, and in most romantic relationships that is not the case.
    If the relationship between children and parents endured because of the special kind of love (and not other considerations), then children wouldn’t have wanted to “see other people” (often on their parents’ dime!) the second they turned 18 :)

  304. Dandelion Wine says:

    @Toughlove, how crazy? Bertha Rochester crazy, or “That woman must be mad, expecting me to keep faithful” crazy? :)

  305. Dandelion Wine says:

    BastIsisKali, there are many examples in animal kingdom of monogamy (mating for life) and serial monogamy (mating for a season of child rearing, however long that would take), there’s nothing *unnatural* about either.
    If you want to be monogamous – be, if you don’t want to be monogamous – don’t be; do you really need *your* choices to be justified by what a spring hare or a stray cat does?

  306. @Cleo,

    Amen sister, I do so miss the Victorian ritual of courtship! I have always joked I was born about 100 years too late. Heck, I’d settle for growing up in the 50’s, good little Stepford wife that I’d probably make. :)

    Regarding TL vs Stormy….they are polar opposites, but I do admire and highly respect them both. I appreciate the opinions because it won’t be one kind of man that will be reading my profile…so different points of view are highly desirable.

    You’re so right, you can’t appeal to everyone and I will be lucky to appeal to 10%. Some will automatically knock me out because I’m married, some will hate blonds, some hate animals, some don’t like to be outside, others are just interested in intimacy and won’t want to ever go shopping or to the theatre…I realize all that. I’m looking for that one little needle in the haystack that’s left over. It’s a sifting process, just like panning for gold and I’m sure the SD looking for a gal like me will have encountered a similar difficulty by the time he meets me no doubt. So perhaps the appreciate will be strongly mutual!

    I love Stormy’s passionate views of life, he is a person I know has empathy and a good heart. I unfortunately strongly attact to the challenging type of man (aka TL), so I will have to plead the 5th on my case here Your Honor!

  307. cleo says:

    nygent: you have scrolled off my mailbox, can you please email me through profile 406468 and i’ll send you the one i actually search with?

    :)

  308. DorkyGuy says:

    Unconditional romantic love rarely turns out well.

    There need to be at least two conditions. 1) that they love you in return (otherwise, it’s just stalking and/or using)… and 2) that they demonstrate their love by not intentionally doing things that hurt you.

  309. ToughLove says:

    @ Cleo
    Thanks for the invitation.

  310. ToughLove says:

    @NYC SB

    The reason I recommended the book to Bicentennial is largely because of the process of “becoming” that’s shown in the Marilyn Monroe/Cleopatra section. There was a time when a woman’s only access to power was by seducing men of power. I’d like to think there’s value in those stories for a newbie SB. Most likely, someone with your experience already knows and does many of those things without conscious thought. And in that case, the book is just be an interesting piece of history.

  311. NYGent says:

    Cleo: i can review your profile (if you provide the #). Not sure what the other profile is you’re referring to.

  312. cleo says:

    tough love if you’re ever in toronto we’ll have to swap theories over drinks :)

    and yes, i need a MAN, where the hell did they all go? seriously, still finding yourself in your forties?

  313. ToughLove says:

    @Cleo

    Understood. I’ve often spoken with friends about the fact that men in modern society are no longer “men” (which unfortunately manifests itself in many of the “tales of woe” shared on the blog). Society used to have a “process” through which boys became men. The boy had to be tested, pushed, driven to his limits, and in some cases “broken” so that the MAN could emerge. The MAN was then expect to live by a certain “code of conduct”. Those rituals have been lost for the most part by Western culture. The funny thing is, the societies that have retained many of those rituals are often viewed as “primitive” by most Westerners. If sites like this are any indication, it seems there are many women who’d welcome a return to the “old ways”.

  314. NYC SB says:

    Tough love – still reading “the art of seduction” I’m almost done… If there is not some amazing “aha” moment soon I will be asking for my time back… Its just stories of seduction to illustrate his point… Am I missing something? What makes this book so awesome for you?

  315. cleo says:

    nygent: can you please email this profile and i’ll send you my current profile. i’d love for you to read it in a ‘new york state of mind’ :)

  316. cleo says:

    tough love i think it has a little to do with my mention of my brothers/dad asking about his prospects. there used to be screening before a man was even permitted to court the kind of lady that tends to hang out on this blog.

    it was just understood that his prospects and lineage needed to be up to a certain snuff or that he had to have something to offer to earn a remarkable woman.

    i understand that often women were sold as chattel and i’m not advocating that but a lot of those victorian style women were saying yea or nay behind the scenes without the suitor ever knowing.

    something was lost with the courtship rituals of old, even the idea of the ‘carte blanche’ is far more difficult now due to so much muddying of the waters.

    and for the record i know that money doesn’t buy happiness but it sure makes looking a lot easier…

    anyway, food for thought.

  317. ToughLove says:

    @Storm

    Personally, I’ve always been fascinated by the concept of love. Think about two people on their wedding day…at that moment neither of them can even imagine spending another day on this planet without that partner next to them…facing the great unknown together. Yet, we then see 50% of those once blissful couples getting divorced. And those feelings of undying love and admiration have turned to hatred, disdain, disgust, disinterest, etc., emotions VERY different than what they felt in the beginning. The process by which love, THE supremely positive emotion, turns into strong negative emotions continues to fascinate me…

  318. ToughLove says:

    @Storm

    No offense taken. Reality supports my view. There isn’t a person reading this blog who hasn’t had a serious romantic relationship end be it through divorce, breakup, etc. Romantic love always has a breaking point. Conversely, there are probably very few, if any, parents on this blog who’ve chosen to END a relationship with their own child. Just a thought…

  319. BastIsisKali says:

    Regarding love….The idea of unconditional love as the only defined means of expressing true 100% love, is a bit too absolutist for my taste. I never believed all of those Disney movies when I was little and, now that I am a little older and wiser, I can barely stomach them. Have you seen Beauty and the Beast? And we wonder why children grow up thinking domestic abuse is acceptable and that “No” doesn’t mean no….I am oversimplifying, yes…but watch the movie again….

    That being said…I still like The Little Mermaid and The Lion King…

    I believe love exists; And in multiple forms, similar to those mentioned above. I 100% love my cats…so be nice to them, or I’ll have to grab one of my dance swords. 😉

    Okay…after reading some of the above thoughts about what makes a good SB profile, I’m wondering if I have actually expressed those elements effectively. Tips/pointers appreciated.

  320. Noledgeseeker says:

    Stormcat vs Toughlove
    taking bets now : p

    Just kidding but you guys are really polar opposites though I doubt you will convince the other of you view, could be a nice discussion though if thats how you want to spend your energy.

    @Bi – Got the stamp of approval from TL. … Wow. GJ girl. Now think, which of the two would you rather have as a sd? That should tell you whether or not you need to change your profile.

  321. Stormcat says:

    I love what everyone is saying and am learning a lot from this discussion. The problem is that I’d love to stay and chat, but I’ve got a date! Can we pick this up again later?

  322. Stormcat says:

    Tough love ~ I always worry about the process of justification as being one of the ways that I allow myself to act contrary to my best interests. Perhaps it is a mistake to feel the way I do. But I think that all the loves, not just parental, should be unconditional otherwise they are not really love. In evidence is the marital vow “love, honer, and charish” “for better or for worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health” how much more unconditional can you get. No offense, but I actually don’t think your logic is correct. The not abandoning of your crazy romantic partner indicating in your statment that you don’t love yourself only implies that for whatever reason society expects you to abandon your crazy partner, but there is no indication of level of privity, commitment, or love for either oneself or one’s crazy partner in that statement.

  323. ToughLove says:

    @Storm

    Parental love very different from romantic love. Parental love is unconditional. Romantic love in even the BEST circumstances come with certain expectations. If your child acts like a crazy person in public and you then choose to abandon that child, we’d question the love you have for that child. However, if a romantic partner acts like a crazy person in public (or in private), and you DIDN’T abandon them, then we’d question the love you have for yourself. (Intentionally keeping this post short, although I could go into more detail on romantic vs parental vs brotherly love.)

  324. ToughLove says:

    @Storm and Bicentennial

    I read a draft of the profile and I thought it was perfect. Fun, playful, intelligent, outgoing, adventurous, etc. Then again, intelligence is very high on my list of criteria, so I would think it’s perfect. She shows enough of her self to give aclear picture, and then explains what’s in it for me if I were to be her SD. Very few of the profiles I’ve seen are this thorough. (Again, I write LONG posts, so I’m all about thorough.)

  325. Stormcat says:

    Please everyone I am not avocating monogamy or even exclusivity, I never have! But I have a huge heart as I believe we all do. I wish for many lovers/SBs/wives. But I truely will deeply love, admire, and charish each one of them for those qualities that make them admirable, cherishable, and lovable to me. Demands of exclusivity are not really about those things, exclusivity demands are about possession, control, and envy. I think that what I am avocating is for people to realize that we are not about polygamy, but that we are about polyamory. And that the true loving of another does not take from the loving of the one rather that it expands and deepens it. If you deeply love your first child can you then not also deeply love your second, third, fourth? Why is it so different with lovers?

  326. BastIsisKali says:

    I think I’m going to cry! That story about the swans… :(

    I fully believe animals have feelings (a good number of them anyway). As an aspiring crazy cat lady, I have seen how my cats react to changes in the household and the loss of another cat. They do seem to exhibit a state of depression for a time. So, it is quite possible your little swan friend did “die of a broken heart” in a way. I am not saying that love, romance, and successful monogamy do not exist, they obviously do, and I commend the individuals who are able to make it so. But, based on the evidence I just think it is unfair to extract commitments from people that we (and they) know they really cannot keep. It is unfair to all involved.

    • SD Guru says:

      @Cleo

      i need someone to ask him about his prospects because i’m pretty sure they’re dim

      Why don’t you just ask him yourself?

      but i’m older and more cynical (practical?) than lily and i just can’t date another man with no money.

      You mean unlike Lily, just smelling good is not enough? :)

      @Stormcat

      You have not burst my romantic bubble. I realize that I allow myself to believe the lore about animal monogamy.

      Every time the issue of monogamy or exclusivity comes up, I think of the following paragraph which I have posted before.

      “Personally I think having exclusivity in a NSA arrangement is a fallacy. In most sugar relationships SD/SB’s have plenty of time on their own to do whatever they want unless both are local and can get together frequently. Some people may agree to exclusivity with good intentions, but in most cases they’re just setting themselves up for disappointment.”

      @Noledgeseeker

      omg I’m laughing so hard I’m in tears…. he wants to ‘do’ me…lol

      You mean you expected more from the men on CL? 😉

  327. NYGent says:

    Muse/Yaz: ok, ok! I’m drawing a line the sand now . . .

  328. Stormcat says:

    BastIsisKali ~ Thank you, I didn’t know about those studies or of the book of which you speak. I will happily acquire that book and would like to read the details of the studies that you quote. You have not burst my romantic bubble. I realize that I allow myself to believe the lore about animal monogamy. But it is because as a boy, a male swan that I fed daily with his mate on our family ranch, completely stoped eating when his mate was hit by a car. In spite of my best efforts to get him to start eating he died within a month. It was overwhelmingly painful for me, and of course it was my grandmother who seeing my distress told me that the male had died of a broken heart. I had developed enough trust with the pair that they ate from my hand and allowed me to pet them. It was an experience that has never left me. Perhaps it truely is as you say, only an emotional monogamy, but in the animal world where the unmated male will essentially rape when the female’s mate is not present to protect her, I’m not sure that that counts as voluntary polygamy. I am also not sure that the monogamy of those species is more about rarity and that if in a more robust poopulation there isn’t much more cross breeding for those species.

  329. @Stormy,

    I’ve redone the profile and concentrated on making it more compact and centering on the fun stuff, etc…I’ll send you the update, see if it reads any better?

    As to the other half, no he couldn’t possibly participate in the sugar bowl. We’re broke. His last wife is still zonking him for child support for another 3 years and he never went to college. He works hard but is a bit older than me (mid 40’s) so there’s no chance of a career change or a return to school at his age, he’s about 8 years from retiring at 25 with his current company and that’s what he wants to do.

    I had a high powered job for many years so the disparity was not obvious until that job was eliminated. I am now a stay at home wife/mother and do some non-profit work. it’s been great for the kids and the marriage but not for the bank account. So the only way I’ll ever have the finer things in life until the kids are gone and I can work 60 plus hours a week (ugh) again, is the sugarbowl. No one is supporting anyone, I simply want things I cannot have otherwise and like many other ladies, this is a fair and equitable way of maybe in my lifetime owning a pair of shoes that costs more than $30. I may change my profile to seek a gift/travel daddy more, simply to assuage any fear that this sort of thing could happen. I would never take advantage of a man like that and my husband wouldn’t accept that money anyways.

    I realize, I do, that some men may be put off by the concept but if they are, someone else won’t. They probably should ask me first before jumping to conclusions though.

    Also to your question how may married SD”s would consider their wife to be someone’s SB? That’s called a trophy wife and she’s getting what she needs to not have to become a SB. If my husband were a millionaire, I’d not have a want in the world. If he had money, he’d be very generous as he is by nature. But if wishes were horses, beggars would ride…

  330. yaz says:

    Muse~ Basically what I told NYGent yesterday. But I think all it takes is just her batting her eyelashes and he is goo….She knows it and will not hesitate to use him again, Im afraid.

    Today is Friday the 13th! Don’t know why I am soo dang excited 😀

  331. Muse says:

    AM – xo!!! Happy Friday, beautiful.

    NYC SB- I feel the same way. I adore my sugar friends.

    NY Gent- I’m going to explain a very difficult concept you should implement when dealing with former sbs, especially this one. Pay attention and repeat after me. “No.” One more time. “No.” Ok, now this: “No, I’m sorry, but I can’t help you out anymore. Our relationship is over and it’s no longer appropriate for you to be turning to me for handouts. I’m happy to be your friend, but not your atm.” If the last bit is too hard, just stick with “No.”

  332. Stormcat says:

    BiBaby ~ I’m not trying to be provocative but I ask of you as a married SB, is your husband also participating in sugarland? Is he someone’s SD? I think sometimes one of the issues that keeps SD’s from going after married SB’s who they would otherwise find irresistable, is the nagging thought that they will somehow be supporting two people rather than just the one to whom they are connected. I know in the strict sugar business sense that shouldn’t make any difference. but I’m sure that it wears on some mens minds. I also wonder in the other direction. How many married SDs would encourage or in reality even approve of their wife being someone’s SB?

  333. BastIsisKali says:

    @Stormcat>>>Sorry to burst your romantic bubble, but those species (not sure about the butterfly fish that someone else mentioned) are not monogamous. They may be (for lack of a better term) “emotionally” monogamous, but they are not sexually so. Genetic tests demonstrate that the females do not always reproduce with the male they have partnered with.

    The concept of monogamy in western society is only really 50 years old or so. Prior to that it was only something women were “required” to do. It is not seen in the animal kingdom as we are led to believe. There is a really great book out now called Sex at Dawn. It is a look at human sexuality through the ages and examines the evolutionary aspects of our sexuality, including using examples from our closest relatives, Bonobos. I am in the process of moving, so I haven’t purchased it yet, but I’ve been reading many excerpts and am familiar with a number of the references used by the authors. Once I get moved, settled I’ll be hitting up ebay to get myself a copy.

    @Bicentennial>>>Bast is awesome isn’t She? I came up with this little SN years ago and I use it for my more “adult”….um…dealings…

    All relationships fail…until one doesn’t. :)

  334. Anna Molly says:

    BiBaby ~ I’m married as well and never received nasty emails about that. Most were just really curious about the situation. Good Luck!!

  335. @Stormy,

    Yeah, I think I am going to trim the profile down…I am a writer (long story, another lifetime about 10 years ago I wrote scifi) and it clearly shows. Can’t make a post less than 3 sentences long!

    I’ll try to add a little lightness to it…I guess I am worried about flakes, nasty emails from people who think whats good for goose not good for gander (i.e married SB’s), not appealing to enough people so I am posting all the cool “male” stuff I like to do.

    I was told about 90% of it is age, photo and location, so it’s predetermined without much I can do what can be done about that. At least my pictures seem ok. ;p

  336. Stormcat says:

    Noledgeseeker ~ LOLOL
    What parts do you suppose he intends to do? Hair, Nails, Laundry?

  337. Ah, cool discussion,

    (and I love the name BastIsisKali…I have a gorgeous limited edition original print of Bast in my bedroom) I digress..

    Cleo’s very right, people IRL dating tend to ramp up the timetable. I think society does this to us a lot as do various churches (being raised Catholic, I have to retype The Church, as I think of it)…and it’s not always a choice either. I love my own DH but marrying him wasn’t what one might call a choice, it was more of a development. We were best friends and then hung out and then dated and then one day decided to get married as we were living together and everyone was asking. I never dated anyone else, it just happened.

    Though clearly I love him and do not regret marriage, looking back I realize neither he nor my 1st marriage were “choices”, they were more like “happenings”. I never once sat down and realized I had a checklist of stuff that needed to be met or at least addressed, to be happy with a mate. I am sadly not a naturally monogamous person, I think of myself as one who is capable of liking a lot of people…which is a bad thing in society. I am fortunate my mate understands that at least.

    I think Cleo is right to be wary, it’s the elephant in the room when you don’t acknowledge that something is important for you but you try to rationalize why guy X should be enough. Maybe he isn’t. Once you’re married you have no choice but deal with the fallout but while dating? Seriously I’d be “next!’ about it. Relationships too often just happen because someone’s in your zip code and you’re too lazy to go after what you really want or admit those wants are not going to go away neatly, society be damned. This is why if I had my life to live over again, I would definitely have been more up front about what are dealbreakers for me and not just tried to make myself feel like that was shallow because that’s what other people think.

    Which is the worse hell after all: being miserable and married to someone who can never provide for you what you want and you become a nagging b*&^h to him for asking, or waiting and being selective so that you don’t wind up making you both crazy asking for the things you know you need to have in life?

    I know some people say just go out and get it yourself, but I’m old fashioned and truly, I think the husband pays the bills and the wife cares for the home/kids. And yes, I put a warm dinner on the table every day I’m home and do all the housework, so I practice what I preach.

  338. Stormcat says:

    Yaz ~ The opening was really fine. A smashing success! Many of the works sold on the first night at breathtaking prices. Later we all met at a local resteraunt, and gathered in the garden around an open fire, where the food wine laughter and converstaion lasted till well after midnight. Several in the group are musicians so at some point out came the instruments and we all jammed with the pros making the amateurs sound good.

    BiBaby ~ I took several looks at your profile preview and it seems well thought out, but, I somehow just didn’t like it. I have read it over quite a few times now but can’t put my finger on what exactly it is that is disturbing me. It seems heavy. ie Too serious and a bit too deliberate. Like a fine print disclaimer. The real, interesting, intelligent person that we know here is not showing through. I realize that you are simply trying to be absolutely clear about what you’re seeking, but, in your profile you can’t really address issues, so it’s better to just show your fun to be around self. Less description about you and more about how you imagine yourself and your SD enjoying the arrangement.

  339. Noledgeseeker says:

    Great quotes from the blog
    “Hogwash!” – omg I am so incorporating this into my regular vocabulary. -said by *Kali

    “..people do this instant mate assessment and ..” perfectly said cleo

    @Stormcat Why am I not surprised that you were the one who piped up about all the examples of monogamy in the animal kingdom, you are such a romantic : )

    *ahem – said with the voice of the nerd from the back of the room* Actually Butterfly fish are another example of monogamy in nature. If their mate dies the other starves themselves to death.

    IRL vs SUGAR dating – I had a guy ask me to lunch at a chef school restaurant. The prices were really low (ie:$6/meal) for a really upscale lunch since it was prepared and served by students. At the end of the meal, the guy pulled out 2 coupons (ended up only being able to use one) and looked at me and said, “Here’s my rule, we go dutch on the first date, after that, if this becomes a regular thing, I’ll pay” I swear my jaw hit the floor. The tab was $18 and change … needless to say, there was no second date.

    Sugar Update:
    At last there is sugar on the horizon! I posted a CL ad and got about 6-8 responses before it was pulled. And there are 2 from here I’m possibly meeting next week.

    Ready for a laugh? Quotes from a CL response:
    him- “Blonde petite nice,,I’m athletic and muscular thick well hung..lets chat and trade pics,,,write back I’ll send pics”
    me- “Are you a Sugar Daddy?”
    him- “I can be, ,u gotta be very fit sexy body,,and let me do u whenever..”
    omg I’m laughing so hard I’m in tears…. he wants to ‘do’ me…lol

    ..back to my email : )
    ~me

  340. cleo says:

    kali: i think a lot of people in irl dating label too fast. i’m all “dude we’ve had five dates, chill, we aren’t married nor am i even considering exclusivity with you” and they tend to be all “omg you’re the most amazing we’re going to get old together”

    so rather than use my sister’s phenomenal advice: “you don’t have to decide if you want to marry him, just if you want to see him on saturday” (which is how i try to date) people do this instant mate assessment and never actually get to KNOW EACH OTHER.

    i have seen monogamy done well and it’s beautiful, but really, what’s the rush? can’t we date for a while and see other people and then decide?

  341. cleo says:

    SD Guru: i’m seeing a man right now who makes me wish i had brothers and lived in victorian times. i need someone to ask him about his prospects because i’m pretty sure they’re dim

    and yes, that is a turn off; a big enough one that i’m not sure that smart, funny, nice, considerate + the good pheremones will make up for it.

    but i’m older and more cynical (practical?) than lily and i just can’t date another man with no money. course the joke will be on me, his work will take off and he’ll end up a bazillionaire… but i’m still tired of going dutch.

  342. Anna Molly says:

    It’s Friday!!! YAY!!!

    Muse: Hey Sweetness!! 😉

  343. Stormcat says:

    BastIsisKali ~ I don’t think you are going to get into trouble for that post. I agree with you that the stringency of exclusivity is much too high in general society. But I don’t think monogamy is inherently unnatural as there are plenty of examples. Eagles, Swans, and Geese come immediately to mind as speces that mate for life. In fact, with Swans, if one member of the mating pair is killed the other will die soon thereafter, they say, “of a broken heart.”

  344. Lily says:

    Guru – I’m a hopeless romantic so a stringent search for love wouldn’t work. You can just place yourself out there and wait for it to happen or then not.

  345. BastIsisKali says:

    @Bicentennial

    I agree with you on many points; and I would like to take it a step further. This problem is not simply an issue for potential SD’s, but for just about everyone in our society. Our society expects a relationship to conform to a certain ideal and when that ideal is not met, the relationship is automatically considered unsuccessful. Hogwash. For example, monogamy is inherently unnatural in the animal kingdom (which includes we humans), yet we continue to force-feed this idea to ourselves. Yes, many people are capable of it and can have long-lasting “successful” monogamous relationships; however the individuals who are incapable of being monogamous but are forced into that type of relationship by society and then ‘we’ scold them for not living up to our expectations. Perhaps a bit more openness and honesty about what relationships can be is needed.

    Well, I’ve probably gotten myself into some trouble with this post (My first one too!)….that’s what I get for posting, exhausted at the end of a long day.

    The tips and suggestions for profile building and meeting have been quite helpful. I’m glad I decided to peruse this blog. I just edited my profile a bit (it was waaaayyyy too long in comparison to others).

  346. Beach_Girl says:

    Hello Sugars!!!

    The last 2 weeks or so I have been getting mails from SDs who are coming to visit my city… They want me to show them around and have a good time *wink wink*.. They have never been here before …
    What is up with that, do I look like a tour guide escort?
    lol

    • SD Guru says:

      @Lily

      just a gut feeling + his smell.

      Looks like it doesn’t take much for you to fall madly in love… have you thought about using a more rigorous criteria for finding a BF similar to finding a SD? Or does that take all the fun out of it?

      @Luckyms88

      but if age is a factor, why am I wasting my time here. Life is too short to waste time. Are there any real guys here?

      It seems that you’re approaching the sugar world with a chip on your shoulder because of your age and making an assumption that only real guys don’t care about age. Obviously people in the sugar world have their preferences, whether it’s age, looks, or something else. I’d suggest that you look around and learn from the experienced SB’s in this blog to see how they present themselves.

      @NY Gent

      I didn’t think we were really a match. I sincerely wished it were otherwise but you can’t force it

      Did you ditch her after a drink or two, or did you go through the whole dinner and dessert routine again?

      No matter how I try, I just can never get angry with her and I’m constantly forgiving/making excuses for her. For one thing she is very young, and then she flashes those doe eyes and I am putty.

      She does what she does because you let her and she knows she can get away with it. I learned it the hard way and never again! I hope you’ll be able to do the same someday.

      • SD Guru says:

        Re: IRL vs Sugar Dating

        Very interesting discussion! Here are my two cents… in general I try to keep things simple and not get too philosophical and over think it.

        Stormcat said: “it makes it harder for you to believe in the reality of the connection”

        Keep in mind a sugar relationship is based on the “sugar” with a clear understanding of the expectations and boundaries. Without the sugar it would be just like IRL dating. The reality of the connection is as real as you want it to be, while realizing it’s still a sugar relationship.

        Bicentennial Baby said: “IRL dating and the deeper connection really aren’t appropriate or of any benefit and may if anything, ruin the good thing they have at home such as it is.

        I agree. For those who are attached IRL dating is not an option unless they’re willing to give up what they have.

        Stormcat said: “Each offers the other a reprieve from their dissatisfaction. Yet each imagines a much different result than the other can or is willing to offer. Consequently, both are ultimately dissatisfied.”

        In a sugar relationship both parties should be aligned on what the desired result is and what the other can offer from the beginning. If that doesn’t happen or if it changes over time then obviously the sugar relationship won’t last.

        Michael said: “if the $ are removed, is the connection strong enough to maintain a connection?

        If the $ or other forms of sugar is removed, then it’s no longer a sugar relationship. And if that’s not what the other party wants, then it probably doesn’t matter how strong the connection is.

        aspiring-doc said: “the money- sorta just lit an already built firestack.

        That would be the ideal sugar situation, where the connection is re-enforced by the sugar. But the fire can burn quickly and become out of control if you’re not careful and don’t know how to keep it under control (I think that’s what happened with your SD).

        Have a good weekend everyone!

  347. Stormy – yep, the blog is a funky kinda place, huh. Have another glass of red wine, and call me in the morning.

    A-doc – agree. The connection is what makes it, and the $ are the icing on the cake, or lit his fire when the woody is already in place. (sorry, couldn’t resist).

    I remember a relationship I had waaaay back in the mists of time – we were really attracted to each other, but it just was not going to work. So we went to bed, thinking it would be a disaster but it was like trying to put out a fire with gasoline. 20 years later, I still dream of her.

    It sounds like your SD was fantastic. Such a shame that it had to end in the way it did. But what a great relationship – when you KNOW that someone cherishes you? What a turn-on, and what a great experience and memory.

  348. Stormcat says:

    a-doc ~ I took one woman through internship and residency. I think it is more than any two people should ever endure, and I was ready to take the program to court for abuse. And now after these many years I am left alone and a bit bitter about the sacrifice I made for her. If your SD is doing all this for you, without complaint, he has more feelings than he is expressing and you won’t find anyone better. Ever!

  349. aspiring-doc says:

    and yes- dady sydrome- quite possibly :D.
    sutdies are full on- i worked 80 hrs this week – im on call- i dont sleep

  350. aspiring-doc says:

    @ michael: ‘the connection’- this is why im pouting. For me the connection isnt quantifiable. I guess the $ made my lifestyle easier- the money showed me he cared in some ways. I didnt have to worry about rent or having enough money in the account to pay for textbooks. Being able to relax and know that hes providing was a turn on. Having said that- he also treated me like a princess- it wasnt just the money- he was kind, attentive and a complete gentlemen. he cherised me- and i knew it. for him- Im not sure- my youth, my beauty, my gentleness? We could also hold long intelligent conversations. we made each other laugh.

    the money- sorta just lit an already built firestack. I guess for him- my youth and beauty ignited his. the wood was in place- the things we can provide each other with- ignited it. :)

  351. Stormcat says:

    You know, I am starting to think that this blog is the strangest, yet most wonderous, place I have ever encountered.

  352. Stormcat says:

    A-Doc ~ You have been absent for a while! Welcome back! How are the studies going?

  353. NYGent says:

    Michael, I don’t think she really will, except in a perfunctory way. That’s the sad part.
    I guess I am trapped in a 1940s movie, as Joseph Cotten, waiting for Jennifer Jones to finally come around . . . As Myrna Loy once said, “some people think the movies should be more like real life. I think real life should be more like the movies. . . .” I would add the sugar world to that wish list …

  354. Stormcat says:

    NY Gent, Alleycat ~ It’s the daddy syndrome!!! That’s why we’re here!

  355. aspiring-doc says:

    Hey

    so back to the SD hunting. I havent officially ended things but unless he can keep emotions under wraps- ill end up destroying him. So i left him to think on it.

    The process isnt fun…..I feel like a pouty little girl. I cant find the chemistry with anyone else. Above and beyond an allowance- the chemistry was amazing. …. and he made me feel like the most important person in the entire world. I like being treated like a princess :). the bar is too high! -sigh-

    looks like the SD’s are struggling to find the perfect SB aswell :) hows everyones searches? :).

  356. NY Gent – how is she going to show her gratitude? That would be my question…

  357. NYGent says:

    NYC SB: no, she has the return ticket from Europe, it’s getting back to Spain from Italy she needed help on. supposedly.

    This is the famous (or infamous) SB that was subject of our meet last December. No matter how I try, I just can never get angry with her and I’m constantly forgiving/making excuses for her. For one thing she is very young, and then she flashes those doe eyes and I am putty. An actress? Probably, and probably a very good one, but what’s a guy to do …

  358. Stormcat says:

    NY Gent ~ You are a gentleman and an honerable one at that!!!

  359. Stormcat says:

    NYC SB ~ Sweetheart, you are always so level headed and yet here you seem to be advoiding the subject being discussed. Please lend us your wisdom!

  360. NYGent says:

    Just got back from pot date (the one I had met a year ago, which went nowhere). Had a better time this time, as did she, but still just isn’t that chemistry/connection that I think is necessary to support and undergird an SA arrangement. She nonetheless wanted to proceed with one, and I had to tell her that though she is a beautiful, poised, intelligent and sophisticated young woman, I didn’t think we were really a match. I sincerely wished it were otherwise but you can’t force it, I’m afraid.

  361. NYC SB says:

    Ny gent – your kindness never ceases to amaze me! But in all honesty who purchases a one way ticket to europe? For one its a huge red flag for customs and secondly its more expensive. I hope your gesture is rewarded with lots of good sugar karma

  362. Muse, BiBaby, Stormy, NYGent (and others!)

    Really interesting subject. Stormy hit it on the head when he said “it makes it harder for you to believe in the reality of the connection.” I am ALL about the connection so that made it even harder when my last SB blew up so badly. I understand the non-permanence and I am ok with that, but the understanding of the reality of the connection is the one that still eludes me.

    Can some more SBs comment on this? Is the reality of the connection a myth or real? What creates it and what breaks it? How strong is it, and what breaks that connection, and what can that connection withstand? For example, if the $ are removed, is the connection strong enough to maintain a connection?

    As NY Gent so eloquently put it, “(you) have both put your figner precisely on the pros and cons of sugar”. 😉

  363. NYC SB says:

    I love my muse!

    I swear I really have the awesomest sugar friends ever! How did a girl get so lucky???

  364. Stormcat says:

    Sorry for the typos

  365. Stormcat says:

    B baby ~ It’s not that any of us commenting here don’t understand the significance of what we are committing to when we enter into an arrangement. It is that we are lamenting the drawbacks of both sugar and IRL. It has a lot more to do with uncomfortable issues such as security, comfort, aging, etc than anyone really wants to acknowledge. Men who have worked hard for many years and find that their successes have not in satisfactory relationships realize the existance of a significant pool of younger attractive women who are looking for the security and comfort imagined or expected frim their youth. Each offors the other a reprieve from their dissatisfaction. Yet each imagines a much different result than the other can or is willing to offer. Consequently, both are ultimately dissatisfied.

  366. Muse says:

    AM – Welcome back, darling. We missed you.

    Midwest- What? No love for Muse? :(

    NYGent, Michael, etc – I agree. Sugar-dating cuts out a lot of the bs and game playing but there are downsides as well. Sometimes I not sure which one is better….

  367. @Stormi,

    Yes, agree with your comment about realization of distance and non-permenance, however IMHO many of those seeking SB’s (and some seeking SD’s) are in situations where that’s ALL they should be seeking. IRL dating and the deeper connection really aren’t appropriate or of any benefit and may if anything, ruin the good thing they have at home such as it is.

    If a man truly wishes to remain married to his wife, or unattached because of the demands of his career, or perhaps he just doesn’t want commitment and/or children…well then this is the only appropriate venue for him. Falling in love for people like that really isn’t an option, as romantic as the concept is, nor probably should be. But that is my opinion only, I am sure there are many other viewpoints on that. Personally I hope to have a wonderful connection with whoever my future SD is, but the moment that the arrangement begins to supercede my relationship at home with the person I am going to grow old with, and no longer keeps within the established boundaries for both of us in the arrangement, is the moment I need to consider ending it.

  368. NYGent says:

    well Michael and Storm you have both put your figner precisely on the pros and cons of sugar vs. IRL, couldn’t have said it better.

  369. Stormcat says:

    Michael ~ Yes all that BS disappears, but the drawback of sugar dating is that a different barrier is erected. That of distance, non-permenance, and realization of difference. And while from an SD point of view it shouldn’t matter because if it ends there will always be many others willing, even anxious, to fill the role that the exiting SB leaves, each time the cycle happens, it makes it harder for you to believe in the reality of the connection.

  370. NY Gent – don’t know if I could ever go back to IRL dating, too much BS, much too hard work.

    I had the same thing – flirting back and forth with a really cool looking woman, asked her out, turned out to be all a bit too difficult for her to come up with an answer… and I’m like, look – let’s just go and have some fun somewhere, that’s all. You are putting so much energy into flirting, well, spend a little more energy, let’s go out and we’ll both have a great time!!

    At least with sugar THAT part of the BS disappears.

  371. Midwest SB says:

    Evening sugars!

    I’ve decided to take a hiatus for a little while and place my attentions on other things. Don’t worry if you haven’t heard from me…all is well here.

    I will be visiting with NYC SB in a few weeks….soooooooo excited!

    Lots of sugar bliss to all!

  372. Reddamsel38 says:

    Midwest profile approved!

  373. NYGent says:

    I am sort of keeping one foot in the sugarbowl and one foot in the IRL dating scene, and today got a dose of why in some ways the sugarbowl is easier. I asked out the cute girl who works at my gym who’d been flirting with me for a few weeks, and vice versa, and she just sort of got red-faced, giggled and avoided the subject. In the sugar world you tend to get more specific responses (or at least non-responses, which means a clear no), and it’s easier, in my view, to take less personally. Those are the pros, then there are the cons . . .

  374. Anna Molly says:

    LuckyMS88 ~ I think you just have to be patient and the right guy will come along. Don’t give up! It took 3 months before I found my first sugar relationship. Good Luck!!!

    P.S. ~ I’m married and in my almost mid thirties ( I have a couple of weeks to go yet…LOL) I’m in a sugarship with a wonderful man and couldn’t be happier 😀

  375. Anna Molly says:

    YAZZZZ!!!!! Hey You!! We have to get together one of these days 😀

  376. Anna Molly says:

    Hey FL!! Sooo good to see you!!! Thanks for the welcome back! What wines…hmmm, right now I’m drinking an 07 Merlot :)

  377. @LuckyMS,

    I don’t think there’s an ageitis….it’s also a LOT how you present yourself. I’m in my mid 30’s but I look maybe 30, 31 and I’ve never had a shortage of male attention (I am married also) IRL or elsewhere.

    If you take care of yourself I wouldn’t see why you can’t pass yourself off as younger than your are….MANY women do just that. If you’re 42 but you look 35, say you’re 35 to start out. If the attraction is there and you meet IRL, you can then be honest with your pot SD and I would imagine it wouldn’t make any real difference, so long as you are UP FRONT and truthful once you start discussing things. Guys sometimes shave off some age, or weight, or add a little $$ to what they really make and really, it’s not an issue to me. I either like them and have chemistry or I don’t, and if they and I can agree to the terms of an arrangement, all the rest of that stuff really isn’t any of my business anyway!

    Its’ probably marketing too, rather than think that you have wasted your youth on an ungrateful husband, you could spin it that you have a LOT of life and youth bottled up just waiting to be put to good use in a relationship with the RIGHT special sugardaddy!

    A positive spin does a lot for the results IMHO. Best of luck!

  378. FL-SD says:

    Anna Molly: Hey kiddo ! Good to see you back… What wines are you drinking these days ?

  379. Noledgeseeker says:

    @Michael
    “Once the details and boundaries are agreed, then the fun starts!!” – Totally agree on your approach.

    *slaps forehead* Can’t believe I never figured out that AZ meant Arizona…until you mentioned Phoenix. Blah, I don’t live there now but was born there so it holds that sort of familiarity with me. Yeah, it does got crazy hot there.

    : )

  380. NC Gent says:

    LuckyMS — welcome to the blog. To a certain extent, as awful as this may sound, there is a lot of superficial attraction at this site – this isn’t a traditional dating site. On the same hand, physical attraction is a major factor in INITIAL attraction on traditional dating sites — it is just a way of life, and I don’t think that will ever change. However,people have different preferences so there is someone for everyone, I believe. I am in my 40s and have been on sugar dates with women from 18 to 38. There are women on the blog in their 40s who have had successful sugar relationships. Best wishes in your search.

    Hi Yaz — good to see you!

  381. luckyms88 says:

    Hi everyone. I am fairly new to this site, a few months. I need someone to help me out here with advice. To all the SD’s out there: do all you guys have ageitis. Is this all about the superficial attraction? Are you only looking for SB’s that are in their 20’s going to school and needing help with expenses? Do you not realize that there are older woman that need help too. We may have given our youth away to being a devoted mother raising our children, working, taking care of a husband that did not take care of us. We have needs too. If this site is all about older guys getting their excitement from dating woman that could be their grandaughter, please let me know. I am a sincere person looking for help the same as the next woman but if age is a factor, why am I wasting my time here. Life is too short to waste time. Are there any real guys here?

  382. @Michael,

    Oh, ok! I understand. use the same professional type tone as I clearly would with a coworker or business colleague.

    this dovetails in with the “don’t use r u, or text shorthand, when emailing” as well as improper grammar. Makes sense. It is a job interview of sorts.

  383. BiBaby – re the email thing when a SB emails a potSD.

    If I emailed a potential business partner with a “check out my webpage, and holla at me if you want to do business” I would get nowhere fast. Same with the sugar relationship. Just my preference.

  384. @Michael,

    Well I agree that most don’t treat it seriously enough, what separates SBs from escorts is the long term component plus the development of a friendship and comraderie (sp?) outside of just an intimate aspect. Something that could last several months to a year or possibly even more should be more seriously approached than obviously a weekend of fun.

    I do disagree on the email thing though…how else is a young lady supposed to express interest in a SD she’s finding online? Are you saying that a pot SB should write perhaps about what they have in common with who she’s chatting up? (and I’ve done this very recently, with genuine interest) I then read sometimes sending the more in depth emails scares *off* a pot SD. I would think email would tell you just enough by the “tone” of the writing whether or not you might click if you met in real life. Phone calls and voice intonation tell a lot too.

    BTW my email said “check out my profile” but it was just getting your opinion on the content…n

  385. Vash says:

    Hello Everybody,

    I have not blogged in a while. How are the parties? I have not been to one yet but I heard the one in August was great>

    Does anyone know when the next party is?

  386. Morning all….. really quite nice here in Phoenix today, only 110.

    Should 1st sugar meets be less casual than traditional 1st dates because of the negotiation/arrangement aspect?

    I have lunch tomorrow with a potSB, and as always, I treat it as a business meeting. There is time, money, possibly family and emotion involved. If there is a connection – and you can tell in the first 5 minutes – then I approach it with enthusiasm, fun and desire in the same way that I approach all good business relationships. Whether it is investing or real estate, or getting a SB, this is a professional relationship, with obligations and benefits on both sides.

    I don’t want to sound too harsh about this, but too many SBs treat this really casually and therefore do not get a decent SB/SD relationship. If someone sends me an email that says “check out my profile and holla at me” gets deleted immediately. They just don’t get it. I am looking for a longer term SB relationship, which will involve a chunk of my money and my time. In any relationship where I spend this amount of money and time, I approach it very carefully and professionally. I expect my SB to be at least a little bit professional as well.

    BUT being professional also means being relaxed and fun while business like as we go through the process of negotiating everything. This is not just mutual benefits, but there are mutual obligations as well – which by the way I don’t think we talk about enough.

    Once the details and boundaries are agreed, then the fun starts!!

  387. @NC Gent,

    she’s a very lucky girl! 😉

  388. yaz says:

    Hi NC! Lucky girl! She gets to hear that sexy accent 😉

    Hey Lily :)

    Stormy~ How was the gallery??

  389. NC Gent says:

    I understand your viewpoint SD Guru. It was a one time thing with each of them. I would probably say no if it went beyond that, and I also doubt that any of them would come to me beyond that.

    Thanks for the offer BiCBaby, I am flattered but I have an SB :)

  390. NYGent says:

    Yaz and Guru: I take all your points as having validity.

  391. Lily says:

    I just feel adored.

    Guru – just a gut feeling + his smell.

  392. yaz says:

    *Guru* Whoops

  393. yaz says:

    I think SD Gury and I were thinking the same thing…lol

  394. Stormcat says:

    zzzzzzzzzzhey Lily, what’s up? Why are you on cloud 9?

  395. yaz says:

    NYGent~ I applaud you for coming to your ex-SB’s rescue but do you know what makes you a sucker? Being way too nice. I am sorry if that sounds harsh but this is the feeling that I get.
    You have been repeatedly used for your $$$ from SBs with sob stories, to SBs who led you on and those who made veiled threats and so on……Not good.
    I have only met you once but I could tell that you were a very down to earth, generous and sweet guy BUT (there is a but) I can also tell that any gold digging SB with superior acting skills could get you to spend $$$ on her by doing exactly what your previous SBs have done.
    You said that you usually give in to their demands and then say “enough is enough”. Well why don’t you say NO for a change? No it will not make you look mean. That should tell the ones that are only after your money that you are not a fool. Many SBs know that getting $$ from an ex-SD as soft and good-hearted as you is way too easy. Unless you really have that much money to throw around, it would be a good thing for you to let your SBs know that you are genereous yes but not an ATM (especially not one that they can use AFTER the arrangement has ended)

    Hope I was not too harsh and you get where I am coming from. :)

  396. NYGent says:

    james.m: I’ve also experienced it the other way, with insistent demands for $$ and veiled threats from former SBs. I gave in once or twice and finally said enough is enough and they stopped.

  397. Lily says:

    I am on cloud9.

    Anyone around?

  398. @NCGent,

    Well if you’re in the market for someone to travel….I actually am putting up my profile this weekend and that’s listed as one of my desires. I work in non-profit so my schedule is pretty flexible with a little notice. I am well familiar with NC so if you feel like it, drop me a line! I hope to find someone looking for the same as you, ok with a lady to come see him. Obviously with my other half at home and having children, I won’t be entertaining in my house or hometown.

    @Lily,
    Girl, please do email me! its bicentennialsugarbaby at the yahoo

    @SDGuru,
    Can I email you my profile to look at? I asked a few I know about it but I am thinking it would be best to submit today so I can get a response by the weekend. How long do I have to wait for approval? I’d like to be up by Sunday.

  399. james.m says:

    NCG and NYG,

    There is a big difference between getting suckered into giving someone money, and providing some aid to someone you cared about who needs some help. I, for one, applaud you.

    I have not had an SB to my town, although I am not married. I’m not sure why, but certainly part of it is that other places — Chicago, resorts, etc. are close by and offer a lot more to do than this smaller metropolitan area. I love going out, being social and doing interesting things. (I also enjoyed meeting her at her place for a well- and home-cooked dinner.)

    Personally, I’m surprised there aren’t more reports of SBs not wanting to be seen in their towns with their older SDs…I wonder how many really harbor that worry?

  400. NC Gent says:

    NYGent — if it makes you feel any better. I have had 3 sugar relationships, and I am 3-for-3 and providing post-relationship assistance at about the dollar amount you provided to her. I guess it might make us sucker-SDs, but in the end, the money meant a lot more to them than it did to me.

  401. NC Gent says:

    BiC-Baby — I really enjoy going out with my SB otherwise it would be sex for money, as Noir suggested. I am married, and therefore need to have an out-of-town SB. It makes it harder to find someone, because many SBs are looking for a guy that is local and/or are too busy or unwilling to travel. I think most SDs like doing social things with their SBs, but I could be wrong. I would be interested to hear other SD perspectives on this, especially the married ones.

  402. NYGent says:

    Well I will catch flak for this but my ex-SB emailed me from Europe this morning saying she had emergency surgery which depleted her funds for her summer trip and could I help her out in getting back home, which she said she was embarrassed to ask for but had no one else to turn to including her parents, and she understood if I said no. I am skeptical of the surgery story but don’t doubt she’s low on $$. I did send her $500 which she was thrilled about. She said she has painted several pictures while over there and will give me one on her return.

    I can’t help but think of the Seinfeld episode where George bought a painting from Jerry’s girlfriend (Catherine keener) for $500, even though he thought it was “a piece of junk.” (Note: I’m sure the SB’s painting is nice.)

  403. JSB says:

    Hey Midwest!!

    NYCSB – you’ve got mail :)

  404. Anna Molly says:

    Good Morning everyone!!!! Wow, it is so hard to keep up! Lots to do today, but, I will check in at some point and hopefully it will be with a glass of wine in hand 😉

    • SD Guru says:

      @Noir

      Sugar fam is this weird or what?

      It appears you weren’t a good match for each other and that happens a lot in the sugar world. So I’d say it was an interesting dialog but not weird, and you handled it well.

      @Lily

      someone I can fall deeply, crazy in love with. That was never a consideration when finding an SD.

      Of course, I think that goes without saying. But what makes you fall deeply, crazy in love with someone? Here’s what I’m getting at…. when you look for a BF, do you consider the financial aspects (ie his career, income, wealth, goals, etc) as you would when you look for a SD?

      @Bicentennial Baby

      You know what they say about catholic girls! 😉

      I guess my question would be for the men who are married, do these SD’s all pretty much insist on not going out to dinner, shopping or perhaps an off Broadway play because of the fear of being seen??

      Being “discreet” could mean different things to different people. Some men, like the one Noir encountered, don’t want to be seen in public at all with someone they’re not supposed to be with. Personally I think that’s a bit paranoid or it was just an excuse to focus only on sex. In a big city there are ways around it as you described, but in a smaller place where everybody knows everybody else then it can be more difficult. When I meet a SB locally I’m more careful about the time of day and the part of town, and I keep PDA to a minimum while still enjoy dining, shopping, and other fun activities together. It’s less of an issue when I travel to other places.

      Can I email you my profile to look at?

      Yes, email me through the email addy in my blog. Profile approval usually happens within 24 hours but may take longer on weekends.

      @NY Gent

      You’re a good man and I applaud you for your act of kindness. And the same for NC Gent.

      Now I’ll give you the other side of the argument which I’m sure you’re well aware of. In case of a true emergency, do you think her family or close friends are better suited to help her out? Would she have contacted her ex bf for help? Did she contact you because she knew you’re more likely to say yes? Is this a one time thing or will she come back for more?

      I’m not saying you shouldn’t have done it, I’m just saying there are other ways to look at it. I agree with what james.m said: “There is a big difference between getting suckered into giving someone money, and providing some aid to someone you cared about who needs some help.”

      One of the credos some SD’s live by is this: “Don’t let her problem become yours, especially after the relationship is over.” It may sound cold, but it’s the antidote to the white knight syndrome and I know it’s easier said than done for some people.

  405. Lily says:

    Bi baby, what’s your email again?
    Lady I- I can’t find yours in my inbox either, shoot me a line?

  406. Lily says:

    Guru – someone I can fall deeply, crazy in love with. That was never a consideration when finding an SD.

  407. Noir,

    Very intelligent and polite exchange between you two. Obviously he’s classy enough to be mature and not crass and you kept a professional, ladylike demeanor throughout.

    I guess my question would be for the men who are married, do these SD’s all pretty much insist on not going out to dinner, shopping or perhaps an off Broadway play because of the fear of being seen?? I would think there’s got to be some way to go to another side of town to have time together and let’s face it, you can have dinner or shopping with a lady discreetly without drawing attention…unless perhaps you are swapping spit like two hormone crazed teenagers…but in that case, you’re probably getting a room by then anyway!

    SD Guru,
    I know, it’ sounds so prudish to read what I wrote about how long I waited dating a boyfriend IRL but coming from a Catholic family, you can imagine the guilt I had growing up that I even looked at boys! I know I am the exception to the rule, it wasn’t because I don’t like, ahem, intimacy…quite the opposite! I was just told I was going to Hell if I wasn’t married to whoever I shared that with.

    Clearly I’ve figured out my own path in life but I’m sure I’m not the only one who had parents like that. Anyway, I do hope that most of the married SD’s out there aren’t all afraid to be seen in public SOMEWHERE…I can’t see myself in an arrangement like that, I’d feel like he was ashamed of me and I was ONLY being seen for intimacy and nothing else.

    It seems that many of the men are eager to dip in the bowl but less so to put some sugar in it…*sigh*

    I’m sure it’s unfair to tar all men with the same brush however, there are definitely gentlemen out there, I’ve met (and married) several of them over the years.

  408. Noledgeseeker says:

    @Noir
    Seems pretty common place to me. You handled it about the same way I do.

  409. Noledgeseeker says:

    For me it not the number of dates but have all the bases been covered…

    1) STD test
    2) good chemistry
    3) some idea of what the arrangement might be

    If all that has been covered by the first date.. lets get it on… if not then if it takes 10 dates for you to get your act together then I can wait. But there should be a sugar-bread crumb trail if they want to keep my interest.

    This Cinderella longs for her Prince Charming in Sugarland. Despite my frankness above I daydream of finding a good SD and being a great baby for him. Good looking, honest and with real understanding of the sd/sb lifestyle/relationship, is that really so much to ask?

  410. Noir says:

    @Midwest I will be keeping an eye out for any pot sd’s there. I’d love to meet her.
    So I feel like sharing a recent pot story. Last week I got a friend request on my YAHOO msg 5 days in a row from an unknown person, convo follows:
    Him: hi
    M: do I know you?
    Him: I am a former member of the sd.com site. I let my account expire and I saw your profile on there….took a chance that your username was the same as your yahoo account.
    Me: Wow, ok, don’t you think that is a bit intrusive and odd? You could have introduced yourself in the request.
    Him: I am ___.
    Him: I am 40, white, tall with dark hair and eyes, slim, told very handsome
    Him: I am married and need to be very discreet
    Him: I own a business in the _______ area
    Me: Hello ___, why are you contacting me
    Him: ok…can I have your name as well?
    Me: No, you may refer to me by my username
    Him: I am seeking something discreet, fun, not complicated, and mutually beneficial
    Him: what do you seek?
    Me: I thought you read my profile on the site
    Him: I did…it was last week…my memory is not that good! I’ll go look again
    Me: Ok and I’ll be here waiting
    Him: If you are seeking a relaxed and fun arrangement with a lovely woman who will treat you very well, then I encourage you to contact me so we can begin getting to know each other.
    Him: that sentence is why I contacted you
    Him: and yes I have been a SD before
    Me: lol I see
    Him: and the fact that you are easy on the eyes
    Me: Do you live in the ____area?
    Him: I do
    Him: so I assume you are experienced with this sort of arrangement?
    Me: I am experienced with a traditional sd/sb arrangement
    Him: can you tell me what type of arrangement you seek?
    Him: I mean beyond what your profile states
    Him: because I will be honest…I am not looking for someone to take to social events. Like I said…..I am married and need to be careful
    Me:That’s not discussed until we have established a connection
    Me: discretion is understandable, but if we could not be seen in public, what would we spend our time doing and where?
    Him: I understand…I just want to make sure we are seeking somewhat the same thing
    Him: doing….hmmmm????? well…….
    Him: lunch…convo….fun
    Me: am I to assume it would be mostly physical fun time
    Him: to be completely honest….yes
    Him: just trying to be upfront
    Him: not set expectations
    Me: and I value someone being open and honest
    Me: but I’m not interested in what you’re offering. I prefer an arrangement where my sd and I go out in public together, travel together, spend evenings in, etc, what you’re describing sounds more like sex for money
    Him: I understand….that’s just not me
    Him: I am just a private guy, generous, sane and super careful
    Me: good luck in your search and be safe
    Him: always….you do the same and if you ever change your mind….drop me a line

    Sugar fam is this weird or what?

  411. SD Guru says:

    @Lily

    I want to get laid by a BF.

    If you’re like Bicentennial Baby, who wrote “in my IRL dating, it was NINE months before I lost my virginity to my 1st boyfriend…. With husband #2 it was FOUR months of dating,” then it could be a while before you get laid! :)

    But seriously, other than age, do you have a different criteria for finding a BF compared to a SD?

    @Michael

    At least 50% of the pots I have met here have suggested pay for play. For me it is an immediate turn off.

    It seems that both SD and SB’s are propositioned with p4p more often than not. There must be enough takers on both sides for some people to pursue only that option.

    my #2 is actually a pay4play. We met and really wanted to have a full arrangement, but with our schedules and circumstances it just wasn’t possible.

    I agree, p4p is not for everyone but it can work well in certain situations like the one you described.

    @ElegantSugarBaby

    Wish us luck… He’ll be back in town next week… Part 2…..

    Good luck! Make sure you share all the steamy details with the blog next time! :)

  412. Tanya says:

    So Mr. Truck Stop emailed me and asked me to reconsider. He also told me to keep his number for the future. DELETE! I found it hilarious that guys have the nerve to assume I P4P! I don’t think I look that type. Oh well, next. Haha. I am in no rush. When I find the right SD it will be all worth while. Thanks for sharing other silly men lines, gave me another laugh.

    The search continues!

  413. Yaz says:

    Off topic: I prefer boxers 😉

    AM~ Glad to see you back!!!!! 😀

  414. And yes, a visit is a mutually beneficial one, lest Michael wonder!

    I think the term you’re looking for is “friend with benefits”. Nothing wrong with that…but I definitely would like to at least know a few things about a gentleman before I find out if it’s boxers or briefs too! *LOL*

  415. oh, ok, thank you for sharing all of you…

    Michael, I didn’t realize by the 3rd one a pot might be “poof” outta there.

    In my case, I likely will have to travel, but I might be terrified to be intimate on the *very* first meet. If there’s chemistry, then I certainly would think it ok to move it up to the 2nd meeting, why not? But I would expect at least half the allowance as consideration and good faith that the arrangement was going to continue.

    The first meeting should be nothing more than coffee, or if I’m flying up, dinner and an overnight in separate rooms. IF things are going fine, then maybe a visit in the morning on the 2nd day and I think the SB should take the lead on that one. I would of course expect negotation of the allowance to take place by that time though if you move up your timetable, it’s only fair I move mine up too right?

    I didn’t realize the 3rd one is a dealbreaker…in my IRL dating, it was NINE months before I lost my virginity to my 1st boyfriend, who became my husband a year later at 18. With husband #2 it was FOUR months of dating. I guess I’m lucky I’ve had patient men, but I was more shy then too because my mother taught me to be Victorian lest I be a slut.

    Now that I’m older, I realize it’s perfectly OK to be a sexy, affectionate woman. 😉

  416. Tatiana says:

    Lol NYGent you’re so right. I personally have never actually slept with a man for money…I never went all the way. I guess there is a certain mentally one needs to have in order to do so. I try to get myself into it sometimes…but majority these men aren’t too friendly…there usually pushy and bossy like there doing me a favor. So it’s really hard for me to begin to like a person like that…& I too am from NY so whenever someone is too pushy with me I push back…way harder sometimes lol. I have somewhat of a part 2 Skype conference with one from California…he has yet to show is face on camera…although he’s seen mine. I’m not sure but it’s really hard finding a legit deal online.

  417. NYGent says:

    tatiana: to elaborate, i personally have no problem, if it’s an SB I’m really serious about, offering up front, say, half the allowance (or in concept, even the full allowance, though i’ve never gone that far). In reality somebody has to “go first” so to speak and take the risk that the other will just take the money and run (in the case of the SB), or poof before paying the allowance (in the case of the SD). I always viewed half the allowance up front as a reasonable compromise. But one does get burned from time to time by going “first.” The usual theory is that the SD should go first since if he gets burned he loses only $$ while if the SB gets burned she’s lost some of her integrity/pride. That makes sense to me. But you’ll get views at both ends of the spectrum, from the SD who won’t pay out a dime without a free test drive, to the SB who doesn’t think the SD has earned any mutual benefits until he’s deposited $10,000 in the bank, bought her two pair of Louboutins, and a weekend in St. tropez.

  418. NYGent says:

    bicentennial: i think your second paragraph accurately captures the idea.
    tatiana: you’d be surprised how many SBs want a substantial amount of $$, maybe not $10,000, but definitely in the thousands, up front

  419. Tatiana says:

    I agree and disagree with some. I just think it’s disgusting for the 1st thing to hear from my SD is “Oh you’re so beautiful…I want you 2 weekends a month for $10,000 I’m very sexual are you?” Lol it’s so annoying and I get that a lot…why can’t they just act like normal humans. When I meet a sugar on our 1st meeting I don’t say “So hey do you have my $10,000 upfront…I don’t take cards…by the way isn’t this such a lovely restaurant?” Lol…that would be so rude and unwelcoming the same principle applies in my opinion. xoxo

    Sugar Kiss,
    Tatiana

  420. Well, I might be a best friend later, but I want to have some happy healthy bonking first!!

  421. BiBaby – I would normally agree re 3rd but my reality is that it has been sometimes the 1st but generally the 2nd date. If it ain’t happened by the 3rd date, it ain’t NEVER gonna happen, and I am outta there.

    I lay out my expectations very clearly, let’s have a great time, here is the arrangement, but I am not here to be your best friend.

  422. Midwest SB says:

    If I may jump in…there’s no set formula for dates and sex. Do what feels right. If you feel you are being led on, then you probably are. If the chemistry is there and you want to seize the moment, then by all means do so. My only caution is to not be misguided by the influence of an allowance. Sex does not equal allowance. Otherwise, enjoy each others’ company and stop over-thinking matters!

  423. @Nygent,

    you said :Tatlanta: a true sd should not press for sex on the first date. Nor should he wait, as I learned, til the fifth, or ninth

    Elaborate please? Is it because if a gentleman waits TOO long, the answer then ends up being NO and he’s spent too much time and $$ without a fair exchange?

    I always figured the unspoken rule was the 3rd date (1st meeting for chemistry/coffee, 2nd for dinner and discussion, 3rd one for the actual meetup if an arrangement is going forth). Is that the consensus in general?

  424. nygent says:

    Tatlanta: a true sd should not press for sex on the first date. Nor should he wait, as I learned, til the fifth, or ninth or ….

  425. Tatiana says:

    I think sugar daddies should be less sexually abrupt during the 1st meeting. No woman wants to feel like a prostitute…& there’s plenty of time for sex later. Maybe I’m just not use to online sugar dating but it’s much different from meeting a sugar daddy in Manhattan randomly walking around. The sugar daddies I meet off line are much more respectful, friendly, and easy going. Sugars online tend to me be pushy…and too sexual at 1st. Sometimes its as if they want a prostitute…when I feel they can just get an high paid escort. Well I love sugar dating because I can’t stand dating broke or cheap men. Sugars have no problem footing the bill & helping me out with my finances & spa trips. I love it xoxo

    Sugar Kiss,
    Tatiana

  426. ElegantSugarBaby says:

    Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it…

    @Sincere you practice Tantra…. <- You are THE SD!!! Her loss!!!

  427. ElegantSugarBaby says:

    @Michael
    Good to hear, I am not the only one running for the hills when I even get the faintest idea he wants pay for play….

    I like to wine, dine and then six/nine… :)
    I like the flirting, the friendly gestures, the build-up…

    Update: Sugar coffee meet/greet this am….

    Let’s just say the coffee was served piping hot with enough steam to last all day… :) (no pun intended:),other than at his and my connection) (and I did sweat to death sitting outside talking)

    He was tall, handsome, had a beautiful smile, and held my attention…

    Looking forward to having lunch next week..

    Did I say that this pot SD truly get’s me excited.. :)
    Something I haven’t had since my last long term SD….
    Our one hour and a half coffee break left me smiling and thinking about the next one…
    I wish we had longer, but he already made himself 30 minutes late.. :)

    Wish us luck… He’ll be back in town next week… Part 2…..

  428. Lily says:

    Michael, email me, I have a proposition for ya. :)

  429. Michael AZ Alleycat says:

    Midwest start with monthly allowance discussion, and let the conversation evolve. If approached sensibly, it comes across as a good solution.

    In other news, SB #1 position is still vacant. First lunch with a potSB is Friday. And yes everybody, she is a local.

  430. Midwest SB says:

    Michael – Thanks for clearing that up and for your insight. It looks as though my new situation is much like your arrangement with sb #2, so I will know not to bring it up right away.

  431. Midwest SB says:

    Reddamsel – your profile is pending. I will try again later.

  432. Lily says:

    Stormcat – you are too kind!!!!

    Guru – I want to get laid by a BF.

  433. Michael AZ Alleycat says:

    Midwest – my #2 is actually a pay4play. We met and really wanted to have a full arrangement, but with our schedules and circumstances it just wasn’t possible. So after much discussion we decided on pay4play, it just suits us.

    I get turned off by SBs who gp there straight there, then it us just about the $ and the transaction.

  434. Midwest SB says:

    Michael – were they escorts or just didn’t want to do the full on arrangement?

    Hi JSB and AM! Welcome back!!!

  435. NYGent says:

    Anna Molly: I’m fine. may have returned a little too soon to the sugarbowl and may need to go back into hibernation, but can’t complain

  436. james.m says:

    Anna Molly – I have only heard tales of strange goings on from your dungeon. And maybe a few screams…

  437. JSB says:

    Should 1st sugar meets be less casual than traditional 1st dates because of the negotiation/arrangement aspect?

    I think they can be less casual because really it is about meeting someone and seeing if the online connection translates into real life. I think the most important thing is to have a good time no matter what you do and in my expeience I have enjoyed myself more with someone i was having drinks with then someone i went to an exclusive restaurant with. Not as casual as a truck stop or Walmart parking lot though lol.

    Have you ever thought twice about the way you presented yourself to a potential sugar? Any regrets? Any success stories or tips?

    In the beginning I was not used to putting all of my expectations on the table but I have learned that it is better to be as clear as possible to save time. For example I used to avoid talking about what I was expecting until after we met to see if there was a connection but I have found that it is better to tell someone before hand because even if there is a connection, they might not be on the same page when it comes to expectations.

    One tip is if you do not have a good feeling about a pot then go with your gut instincts. I had one pot want me to spend the night after the first meet and I declined – I am really glad I did because the pot did not contact me after so he just wanted to satisfy his needs and not mine.

    How has your sugarlife been lately?

    Well my sugar life has been interesting to say the least…my sd and I are reviewing our trial period and seeing if we can both make some adjustments and continue the arrangement. We are not in a full on arrangement yet so I am keeping my options open and I expect he is doing the same.

  438. JSB says:

    Afternoon Sugars…

    Tanya – Def run..Truck Stop..NEXT!

    NYGent – so to hear about your latest SB experiences, I hoe the upcoming date with the pot you met before turns out better the the first time.

    Question: I will be in NYC next Tues, anyone have suggestions on places to go or things to do? NYC SB would love your input on places to go shopping or do some irl searching! Also if any bloggers from NYC are around let me know, it would be fun to connect.

    NC Gent: Re: hamster comment – I have heard that just the tip doesn’t count but I don’t think the same rule applies to the whole thing 😉

  439. Anna Molly says:

    Cleo ~ Good to see you too! I’m wonderful! Hope you are doing well!

  440. Naughty Molly says:

    James.M ~ Seems as though you know Naughty’s Dungeon all too well 😉

  441. Michael AZ Alleycat says:

    @ SD Gurui – He says he has many “pay for play” friendships he has had from this site… I’m not surprised at what he said, it happens more often than people think.

    Absolutely. At least 50% of the pots I have met here have suggested pay for play. For me it is an immediate turn off.

  442. cleo says:

    hey anna molly glad to see you, hope you are awesome and your health is good!

  443. Anna Molly says:

    Hi Everyone! Been a while since I’ve been around.

    Good to see you NYGent! Hope all is well!

  444. Reddamsel38 says:

    Good Morning all! Have a day off today. Still have to run around though. Back to school!!!!!!!! Yes! Have school shopping to do and uniforms to buy. Off to Target and Staples I go. I’ll check back when I’m done to see what you think Midwest.
    Have a great day everyone.

  445. Reddamsel38 says:

    Wow Midwest great profile. I was wondering if you can look at my profile I’ve changed it up a little what do you think? No new pics yet, that will come later, I’m just trying to get my profile text in order. #492358. I know i have to go over it again, I have spelling errors, but you get what I’m saying. If it’s ok then I’ll leave it but with corrections of course.

  446. Sweet-Huni-UK says:

    Hi again

    @Midwest I have not met or spoke to Happy Lurker but he may be on a different name on the site so not sure…

    How is Sugar in the UK?…………well… it’s hard to find real sugar but plenty of artificial sweeteners!

    I find many do not actually read my profiles or would rather turn a blind eye to what is written and try their luck…

    I’m amazed at how many SDs are in their 20’s and 30’s in the UK – no good for me as I’m seeking 45+ ages…

    Had some sugar earlier this year but from S.D. com but I think that is now slowly dissolving!! :)

  447. Diana says:

    I deleted the ad; I might put up one at a later time but i might not be ready to sugar date. I don’t think I’m the girl guys want.

    • SD Guru says:

      @Lily

      it seems that getting laid is somewhat of a challenge for me as a potGF whereas it seems I could only run across the most directly libido-driven male specimens in the sugarbowl.

      Let’s see… do you want to get laid, or do you want the sugar, or do you want a boyfriend?? What’s the ideal situation for you?

      at least I got my own sauna and balcony in my own place which is a stone’s throw from a lake

      You do know in that country saunas are co-ed and most people go in with little more than a towel, and the custom is to jump in the frigid lake naked afterward, right? :)

      @NY Gent

      On the “doesn’t hurt to ask” principle: a pot i sent one email emails back saying she’s moving back to the West Coast at end of the month but “maybe you’d like to fund my move.”

      Actually, it’s the “let’s make a deal” principle. :)

      @ElegantSugarBaby

      He says he has many “pay for play” friendships he has had from this site…

      I’m not surprised at what he said, it happens more often than people think.

      Off to meet a pot SD, for early morning coffee…

      Best of luck, hopefully he is not a p4p daddy! :)

  448. DorkyGuy says:

    When I tried to bring up Diana’s profile (513879), I get:

    PROFILE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED

    THIS PROFILE HAS BEEN DELETED OR SUSPENDED

  449. NYGent says:

    Diana: what city do you list?

  450. Midwest SB says:

    Dianasaur -cleverly written :-) I was able to pull it up direcly…did not do a search.

  451. Diana says:

    @NYGent: exactly and I’m still nowhere to be seen.
    My id is 513879

    can you see me in the searches?

  452. ElegantSugarBaby says:

    :)
    Off to meet a pot SD, for early morning coffee…
    Have a wonderful day everyone!!!

  453. NYGent says:

    Diana: I believe that whether you’re orange or blue, how high up your profile appears depends on how recently you’ve logged in. If you are logging in every day you should be at or near the top of a small pool. SDs who are orange (and most are) can also search by “newest profile,” which again if you are new you should be near the top. Somebody else may have a better technical handle on this than me.

  454. ElegantSugarBaby says:

    @NYGent

    Really?! Did she actually ask that? I would tell her she should not be moving if she can not afford the expenses of moving and being off work for atleast six months. (Meaning she needs atleast 6 months expenses in her bank account)
    If she needs you to fund her move, because you possibly might have a Sugar connection, (which face it 80% of Sugar friendships are short term), she may want to rethink moving….

    Onto a new email I received yesterday after deleting my “old” number profile, and receiving a newer more youthful one…
    HIM:
    Hello,
    I am in town at the Marriot, would you like to talk?

    Me: Hello, XXXXX
    Nice to see you are in town, are you here for business or pleasure?
    And, what are you looking for from this site?

    HIM: Oral or sex…..

    WOW? Really!! I’m pretty sure that is “pay for play” and I am not interested, that is not what this site is about. I am sorry you have found it as such…

    A few cordial emails back and forth…

    He says he has many “pay for play” friendships he has had from this site…

    Yikes!!!
    Ladies!!! Come on!!

    (I didn’t write everything I said, because I was a little offended, but I said it in a nice way)

  455. NYGent says:

    On the “doesn’t hurt to ask” principle: a pot i sent one email emails back saying she’s moving back to the West Coast at end of the month but “maybe you’d like to fund my move.”

  456. Diana says:

    New to the blog and new to the site!!!!
    Question: I sent an email to the support as I am a paying customer yet my ad isn’t even showing up on the top pages in my country and I thought one o the perks o being an orange ad was more visibility!!!!!! Could appreciate what to do, as I really tried to make a good quality ad to get a good quality SD!

    Thanks

    Diana

  457. Stormcat says:

    Lily ~ The possability of making love to a goddess is pretty damn intimidating for mere mortals. The narcessistic factor in the sugar bowl is not gender specific and superegos may be even more prevalent on the male side than in the general population.

    Ahhhhh! a sauna, an essential componant of clean living!

  458. Lily says:

    Again, regular dating is actually really taxing after sugar dating. I feel under the microscope, judged, and the miscommunications are dragging me down. In addition, it seems that getting laid is somewhat of a challenge for me as a potGF whereas it seems I could only run across the most directly libido-driven male specimens in the sugarbowl. My female ego as a sexually desirable woman is suffering a bit.

    Just a little update from the land of Lils. At least I gots my own sauna and balcony in my own place which is a stone’s throw from a lake (yet 2 miles from the center of a city). :) Feeling fine about that.

  459. DorkyGuy says:

    Hey NYC! … sadly, still browsing and learning, but much closer to being able to jump in… Pretty envious of y’all actually doing it. Counting the months till I can start searching in earnest. Can’t wait till the first time a pot asks “how big r u?”

  460. NYC SB says:

    hi dorky guy! good to see you back :)

  461. DorkyGuy says:

    go to gravatar dot com, register your email address, upload your avatar :)

  462. Blk_Barbie says:

    Wow, how is everyone? I’m seeing familiar names are still here :)

    Quick question: how do some of you put an avatar on your blog comments?? I’m a computer geek for my fulltime job and STILL have yet to figure this out! lol! thank you so much!

    Your Blk Barbie

  463. Midwest SB says:

    Noir – Indeed we do! Very exciting news about Pebble Beach! Perhaps he can introduce you to some VIPs and you can network on your own! You and Chitown SB seem to have the same instances in Chicago. She did meet ArtistSD who started off seriously enough, then faded away. I hope she signs on again soon. She should be retuning to Chicago by the Fall. I’d love to introduce you two.

  464. Midwest SB says:

    Reddamsel and Sugarbecka – I’ve temporarily linked and published my profile if it will help you at all when tweaking your own. Use your own style and words, but see if you can convey a feeling of fun, flirty, drama-free and most of all – this lady can be a great sb!

  465. Noir says:

    @ Midwest Hey hun, I’m glad you’re feeling better. We still need to do a Midwest sugar meet.
    Should 1st sugar meets be less casual than traditional 1st dates because of the negotiation/arrangement aspect? Yes 1st sugar meets should be less casual. It makes the 1st meet a little more relaxing, along with coffee or lunch. The purpose of the first meeting is to see if there is chemistry, respect, and a genuine interest between them.
    Have you ever thought twice about the way you presented yourself to a potential sugar? Honestly, I haven’t thought twice about it. I always present myself the best way I can, with confidence. Most importantly, I am always myself, not what they would want me to be.

    How has your sugarlife been lately? Sugar life has been ok lately. Lots of pots that drop of the face of the earth, 3 pots who made plans to fly in, one of which kept bringing money up and how much he would have with him (needless to say, didn’t meet him), another whose wife decided to fly in and surprise him, the other whose flight was delayed and then called to see if I wanted to meet at the bar of his hotel after 11pm (smh…thinking did he seriously just ask me that).
    I am super excited to be attending the The Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance with my last SD and a SB friend of mine this week. I was so surprised that he remembered I wanted to go and he thought it would be a good birthday gift. Omg, I can’t wait!!!!

  466. Midwest SB says:

    SD Guru – ***cheesy grin*** Awwww shucks!

  467. Midwest SB says:

    He just keeps the red pepper spray handy in case you start taking advantage of him? Bwahahahahah!

  468. Noledgeseeker says:

    “Safe Sex! Yes, VERY important to me… as long as I don’t have to wear a condom or get tested.”

    one of my personal favorite ; )

  469. cleo says:

    whoever told shoogar i was looking for her? thanks

  470. Midwest SB says:

    I think Sincere’s “How big r u?” question goes up!

  471. Midwest SB says:

    OMG!!! That was too funny!!!

    We should bring out some of the other wall of shamers so Tanya doesn’t feel alone:
    I remember the following:
    1- Meet me at the Wal-Mart parking lot
    2- Meet me at Starbucks sans panties…and oh by the way, I’m bringing four of my friends.

    Any others?

  472. Noir says:

    @ Tanya please run as far as you can. That is a 50 foot red flag!!!

  473. DorkyGuy says:

    lol @ truck stop guy… I can buy her dinner at McD’s, and I’d still look good in comparison.

    “Jerk, this bracelet is just an old rubber band.” “Hey, at least I’m not the truck stop guy”. “That’s true.”

  474. @Tanya – Truck stop?! Run!

  475. Midwest SB says:

    NYGent – Maybe change it from dinner to a few cocktails first, If those go first, then have dinner. No need in repeating version 1.0. I adore your sense of fairness…very complimentary especially when it comes from a lawyer!

  476. Midwest SB says:

    Bi Baby – I lived most of my life in the South. Now, if I can get a few years on the west coast and abroad, I should have it covered :-)

  477. @Tanya,

    Midwest is RIGHT (I’ve not heard Lot Lizard in many a year…girl, I thought that was only a Southern term! *LOL*)….RUN. Ugh.

    Tell him if he’s looking for this sort of arrangement, you’ll be happy to write his name & phone # on the stall door at the ladies’ room at the truck stop…that way he can date “locals” and he’s bound to find someone who’s more his level…

  478. midwest sb says:

    Tanya- don’t walk, RUN. He’s a total perv john and you are not a lot lizard. That one goes on the wall of shame.

  479. Tanya says:

    So I talked to my pot today and he just wants to meet at a truck stop tomorrow and visits are to be hookups when he is randy. I so don’t feel comfortable so am walking away.

  480. NYGent says:

    Midwest/Yaz: I know, I know. But since it was my mistake I didn’t think I could fairly cancel unilaterally. Was hoping she’d take me up on the offer to cancel but she didn’t so I’m honor bound to go through with it. Not a huge deal.

    • SD Guru says:

      That was a great discussion about screening. Midwest SB’s post made it to the “pages” section!

      @NY Gent

      perhaps you’re right that younger SBs pose a higher risk of flightiness, but I’ve seen it in older ones too… much depends on the individual even if the generalization is, well, generally true.

      I agree that being flighty/flaky/immature can happen in all age groups and much of it depends on the individual. But if you’re targeting the younger age group in general then you should keep in mind the generalization and look for the exceptions.

      I suddenly realized that the pot I was scheduled to “meet” this week is someone i’d previously met on a pot date over a year ago (at least i’m consistent in what attracts me).

      Can you please describe what attracts you?

      since it was my mistake I didn’t think I could fairly cancel unilaterally.

      There is a difference between being a gentleman and being a nice guy. And you know what they say about nice guys…. :) I like Midwest SB’s suggestion to meet for drinks first. Maybe in a year’s time she has a lot more in common with you and became a great conversationalist… (but don’t count on it). This way you can ditch her after a drink or two and still be a gentleman (if she shows up).

      @james.m

      I can’t imagine what would happen if you sent that to a dominant SB like NM; you would spend a long, long time in the dungeon….

      Maybe he wouldn’t mind spending a long long time in the dungeon?? 😉

      @Noledgeseeker

      “Safe Sex! Yes, VERY important to me… as long as I don’t have to wear a condom or get tested.”

      Sounds like someone skipped sex ed in high school!

  481. Midwest SB says:

    ***shaking head*** NYGent – I love you, but stop being so damn consistent!

    Noledgeseeker – we are in the same boat sweetie. I’m ok with it though. I needed to “get my house in order” and readjust to some changes in my personal life. It is all starting to clear up and I’m beginning to sense that inner peace I crave so much. It’s that feeling when you know you have done the right things. I have met amazing people because of sugar and my life is better for it. If I dabble here and there, I’m fine.

    Sweet Huni – It sounds like you’ve been screening all along. How has sugar treated you in the UK? Do you know our friend the Happy Lurker? If not, you must meet him! (My geography isn’t perfect, but I seem to recall he is also from the UK).

  482. yaz says:

    NYGent~ Not a good sign……

  483. NYGent says:

    Well my ineptitude continues to amaze even me and reach new heights. I suddenly realized that the pot I was scheduled to “meet” this week is someone i’d previously met on a pot date over a year ago (at least i’m consistent in what attracts me). the problem is, it was one of the worst pot dates i’ve ever had — not that it was unpleasant or antagonistic or anything, but just that we had nothing in common and nothing to say to each other. We never spoke again. Since she apparently didn’t recognize/remember me this time around, I emailed to explain, said the invite was still open but that I understood if she preferred to cancel. She said she wanted to go forward with it and see if there were any sparks this time. So we’re still on.

  484. Sweet-Huni-UK says:

    Thank you Midwest and Stormcat

    As I’m sure you know there’s a lot you can find out just by typing in someone’s email or name into a search. Someone on SA contacted me not long back with a view to meeting up and I did a search and I found him on some escort dating site blacklist and an escort review site!

    :)

  485. james.m says:

    NY Gent

    Muse said: “I understand your frustration with the flaky women but if someone sent me that text, I would lose all interest. ”

    Am I the only one who thought you were joking? Venting a little of your frustration? Of course you wouldn’t say that, because Muse is right…any self respecting SB would walk away shaking her head…

    Unless, of course, you were trolling for a highly submissive woman. then, the bait is perfect. I can’t imagine what would happen if you sent that to a dominant SB like NM; you would spend a long, long time in the dungeoon…

  486. NYGent says:

    Muse: I agree, it was a one-time experiment that won’t be repeated. sometimes you have to go to extremes before you find the balance in the middle.

  487. Should 1st sugar meets be less casual than traditional 1st dates because of the negotiation/arrangement aspect?

    I don’t think they need to be, no. Notice the question was about sugar first “meets” not dates. Going for coffee to see if the chemistry is there is totally acceptable to me. Now a first sugar date, well then I would say a casual restaurant is fine but if you really want to impress me, then yes less casual is preferred. However, this is only if chemistry has already been established.

    Have you ever thought twice about the way you presented yourself to a potential sugar? Any regrets? Any success stories or tips?

    Twice? That is pretty low actually. But this has more to do with me as a person. I can over think my own name so getting dressed in order to present myself to a pot… there are many second guesses. As far as when I get to the meet/date though, I ‘present’ who I am. No sense in being fake as a shoddy foundation leads only to watching the whole thing come crashing down around you. Nobody wants that. If we don’t match up its okay, best of luck in the search for sugar and hopefully had some nice coffee or lunch and good conversation.

    How has your sugarlife been lately?

    Crashing down around me… not quite that dramatic but I am currently without daddie. Though I do have one casual pot I’m considering.

  488. Muse says:

    NY Gent- I understand your frustration with the flaky women but if someone sent me that text, I would lose all interest. It was really harsh and I would be offended that someone would immediately assume the worst of me before even meeting me. Perhaps if you changed it to something milder like “We have a reservation at 8 at xzy restaurant on Tuesday (or whatever). Please reconfirm with me by noon on Tuesday that you can make it, or I’ll assume something came up and cancel the reservation. Looking forward to meeting you!”

  489. Noledgeseeker says:

    Hello Grindstone I have returned.

  490. NYC SB says:

    Nygent – or she had another pot meeting on monday!

  491. Midwest SB says:

    Sugarbecka – I agree that the first picture does send the wrong message. Save those for those long stretches where you and your SD haven’t seen one another for a while :-) Full length photo in a fitted dress & heels with that gorgeous hair would be much more flattering and will attract the right guys.

  492. Midwest SB says:

    Sweet Huni – I take screening to another level. We all have “haves” and “have nots”, but then you want to make sure this person is genuine. Part of that is done via communication and some is homework. Sometimes (not all) a genuine SD is willing to let you know who he is, what he does, etc and you can verify it on the internet. There are also free public records (in the US) that help confirm is someone is from a particular area. Lastly, you can search e-mail addresses and cell phones to see if they have posted them on CL or other sites where you may learn he’s into pros or BDSM. I just recently learned you can use tineye dot com to reverse search images to see if he/she lifted an image from somewhere else.

    The communication side of things include asking open-ended questions such as:
    1- Have you ever had an sb before?
    2- What did/didn’t you like?
    3- How long have you been on SA? What was your experience so far?
    4- What do you see as your ideal arrangement?
    5- Why is he looking here instead of other sites?
    6- What is he looking for in a lady?

    You get the idea. Ask the question, then do nothing but listen intently. Resist the urge to respond until you are sure he is done talking. You will learn a great deal from his reply. You will find out what a mutually beneficial arrangement is in his mind. You will find out if he is comfortable giving an allowance. If he’s new, find out what he knows and how he decided to join SA. Don’t be offended if he doesn’t have a full grasp on it yet, but instead invite him to the blog. Red flags will come up naturally…trust your instincts and know that if it sounds questionable there is a high liklihood it is questionable.

    Mind you – don’t drill him with every question. Just ask a few that appeal to you and incorporate them into the conversation. Even add, “if I were your sb, what would make you happiest?” while asking the others to keep him from feeling interviewed or defensive. If you don’t understand a reply, ask him to clarify in a curious fashion. Some people skip this and go straight to the meet, but I have found it to be very useful in my approach and I’ve managed to stay away from the flakes. We’ve all had different experiences, so do what works best for you. Overall, be SAFE!

  493. yaz says:

    I like the profile overall :)
    The second pic is beautiful. I would just suggest a full length pic of you (fully clothed) showing off your figure to replace the first pic….Many SDs might look at it and think you are a “pro”.

  494. yaz says:

    Morning all :)

    SugaBeckha ~ That first picture needs to go….It seriously sends the wrong message IMO..

  495. SugaBeckha says:

    Good morning all….. Well with School starting again and bartending work kinda here and there I have really let the SD hunt lag a bit but after my previous comment regarding help please look ( which I left when I was half asleep lol) hr eis my profile number I would love any input or emails (wik wink) with suggestions or whatnot. Here is my profile number 442471 have a great day……. Oh and Mister Michael my dear I don’t have your email to contact you sweetie………….

  496. Sherri says:

    @NYGent – I agree that standing someone up has more to do with personality than age. I’ve been stood up several times by pot SDs all of whom were way over 25. One apologized profusely and gave a plausible-sounding excuse. So I gave him a second chance. He did show up the second time, afterwards asked me out for a 2nd date, then flaked again!

  497. ElegantSugarBaby says:

    @NYCGent

    Somehow it slipped her mind? Give me a break, she was either a flake because she wasn’t ready to meet, or had no intention to, or just wasn’t satisfied with something in a prerequisite.

    Don’t let he spoil your fun, what a waste.

    I hope you are much luckier next time!!

  498. NYGent says:

    SD Guru: perhaps you’re right that younger SBs pose a higher risk of flightiness, but I’ve seen it in older ones too, and I had a 22 y.o. SB who was never a minute late to more than a dozen dates, never canceled, and was totally reliable (except in one major area, which is another story). much depends on the individual even if the generalization is, well, generally true.

  499. NYGent says:

    The flaker’s explanation: “i guess it just slipped my mind” “somehow I must have thought it was Tuesday” (she had specifically requested Monday due to her schedule)

  500. NYGent says:

    Cleo: yes the tone was a bit harsh and I would dial it down in future, this was just an experiment (which apparently did work, at least for now)

  501. Stormcat says:

    If I may, screening is the process of catagorically seperating a mixture into more homogenious fractions. In this case you have a mixture of potentials. You apply some criteria to them (the screen) to seperate the potentials that you want to continue with from the ones that you don’t. Nothing magical, it can be anything that you value. Hair color, height, weight, style of dress, likes or dislikes, religeous belief, diatary habits etc. are all examples of criteria that can be applied as screens for compatability. Of course the above mentioned sexual health, criminal records etc are obvious as are determinations of honesty, open mindedness, kindness, generosity, etc.

  502. Michael AZ Alleycat says:

    Angelika – just the country.

  503. Sweet-Huni-UK says:

    Oh dear, it said I’d already said the first message when I hadn’t so I shortened it and then the first one went through sorry x

  504. Sweet-Huni-UK says:

    Good afternoon :) – I’m a sometimes follower of this blog but I very rarely comment.

    I’m interested in what SB Betty says also –

    “what is SCREENING?’

    Is it related to sexual health or criminal records?

    thank you

  505. Sweet-Huni-UK says:

    Good afternoon :) – I’m a sometimes follower of this blog but I very rarely comment.

    I’m interested in what SB Betty says also –

    “what is SCREENING?’

    I can only guess it’s like a police check (which in the UK we can’t do on each other unless you’re an employee working with vulnerable people then your employer can do one but has to be registerd to)

    or

    Is it screening for sexually transmitted diseases to make sure each other is clean before commencing and intimate relationship?

    Just curious!!

    Thank you x

  506. Beach_Girl says:

    Lily~ awesome about the new place.
    Regular dating???? wow… I am sure you will find someone, I think it’s much easier to find a BF than a SD! my own opinion…

  507. Midwest SB says:

    Sasha – Cleo translated beautifully! I would never advocate sleeping with a guy unless you genuinely want to…allowance or not.

    Morning sugars!

  508. Angelika says:

    I have a question for everyone here. When a premium member clicks on my profile, does the “last login country” show up as a specific geographical location, e.g. Chicago, Illinois, United States? or does it just say the country, e.g. United States? Just curious. thanks!

  509. Lily says:

    Beach – new place is great!!!

    I’m trying the regular dating thing but it is giving me so many headaches! It’s scary, to be honest. I start to miss the fun loving simplicity of a married man who just yearns to put a smile on my face and make my life better without feeling like I’m under the microscope and being scrutinized for “life partner.”

  510. *Inquisitive* says:

    Hey sugars!!!

    Its one of my first times posting,.ive always followed the blogs,.but by the time i finished reading all that was left to do was sleep,.fortunately for me, i cant sleep today,. so here iam :)

    @Cleo
    “not so much that nyc is my target as that i believe i hit better there. i get stared at far more in the streets of new york than toronto…
    that said, i’ll try this nyc suggestion anyway since none of the toronto sd’s give me a second look/date”

    I would have to second that motion,. and maybe even copy your solution (imitation is the best form of flattery, right?) I seem to get more replies from ‘ny gents’, with the tagline , ‘ your cute, but its unfortunate your not local’,.and as far as toronto gents are concerned, i have one too many twins..

    Ps; i loved your profile!
    _________________________

    @nygent
    “If I don’t hear from you by then I will cancel. I do not tolerate flaking. If you confirm and are more than 15 minutes late without texting, i leave, that’s that”

    I think it was a great message to send. It doesnt leave too many grey areas as far as what is acceptable behaviour and what you would tolerate. Despite the fact that for many its a matter of common sense& courtesy…sometimes you have to state the obvious.

  511. NYC SB says:

    Nygent – how rude…
    Cleo – you can always create a test profile which is nyc based (no explanations that you are in To) and see what kind of interest you get… it’s the only way you will truly know if location makes a difference. With the other option the men that wouldn’t consider and out of towner would still pass you up. Either way worth a shot 
    Up at 3am to trade… fun
    Lastly… if I got a dollar for every man of this site which has told me how they are “insatiable” I would not need an sd… grrrr

    Nygent – how rude…

    Cleo – you can always create a test profile which is nyc based (no explanations that you are in To) and see what kind of interest you get… it’s the only way you will truly know if location makes a difference. With the other option the men that wouldn’t consider and out of towner would still pass you up. Either way worth a shot :)

    Up at 3am to trade… fun

    Lastly… if I got a dollar for every man of this site which has told me how they are “insatiable” I would not need an sd… grrrr

  512. Tanya says:

    I am new to the sugar world, but feel that I have a grasp on things. I have been talking to a pot that lives about 30 mins from me and will hopefully meet him soon. I am excited and nervous. Any advice on first meets and when to approach the topic of allowance?

    Thanks!

  513. SB Betty says:

    Hey, all…..

    So, what do you mean by “screening”? Is there a step Im missing?
    I am reviewing the profile and exchanging emails….Is there something else I can do before I meet a pot SD?

    I have a lunch date thursday, 1st time meet. Please, advise, oh wise ones….

  514. Michael AZ Alleycat says:

    Hey Sasha – when do the new photos go up?

  515. Beach_Girl says:

    Cleo~ I think they need to meet you , Your photos do not do you justice and your personality is so amazing… It never comes across it here for some reason… And you are totally real, I totally adore you! xoxo

    Stormy~ Awwww, blush…. 😀

    • SD Guru says:

      @part time sugar

      even though I make it more than clear that this is a very occasional thing with me and I make Zero demands on exclusivity and availability, they are still looking for a substantial paycheck front and center, that is no way to start a relationship.

      Sounds like you should put more effort into screening and don’t keep wasting your time on pots who are not a good fit for your situation.

      @luxaholic

      what happened to common sense????

      My experience in the sugar world has shown that common sense and common courtesy sometimes aren’t that common after all.

      @NYGent

      no show, no text, no nothing. Happens a lot more than you’d think…. having been stood up tonite by some flighty 25 y.o. blond… pls text to confirm by Thursday morning. If I don’t hear from you by then I will cancel.

      This type of behavior tend to happen more often with the younger age group (I know there are always exceptions). If that is the age group you want to target, then you should also be ready to deal with the risks. There are certain approaches you can take to minimize the impact of their flighty/flaky/immature behavior so that you don’t end up wasting your time and money.

      You’re on the right track by asking for a confirmation and explaining the consequences. Alternatively, I’d suggest that you simply ask her to text you when she’s on her way and not come across as a tough guy which may be perceived negatively. We all want to assume the other person has the same common sense and common courtesy as we do, but unfortunately that is often not the case.

  516. VillaCypris says:

    cleo – yey! that’s excellent. gives heightened meaning to the phrase, ‘alive in our own skin’. 😉
    sent you a message by the way….. :)

  517. Stormcat says:

    Oh BG :) ~ Your such a pain in the ***, I guess that’s why I love you so much!!!!!

  518. cleo says:

    VC: thanks milady, i appreciate the compliment from someone as excellent as yourself! nice to be hot again, haven’t felt this good in my body in 20 years!

    i’m glad to hear she’s okay, i hope a magical opportunity lands in her lap one day!

    as for SA? i’m here for the blog at this point :)
    .
    Beach: perhaps i’m an acquired taste?
    .
    Storm: i have slept on midwest’s lap…?

    as for my being choosy, someone has to try to pick me before i can decide if i want to let them. those that like my particular brand of lady seem to be a rare but often wonderful breed :)
    .
    NYGent: ever so slightly harsh tone but otherwise excellent message.

    i might have phrased it differently but i certainly would have said the same sorts of things :)

  519. Beach_Girl says:

    Sugabeckha~ what is your profile #

    Stormy~ I know…and me…. 😀

  520. VillaCypris says:

    SugaBeckha says:
    August 9, 2010 at 8:43 pm
    hello all…… well I keep on pushin and nothing….. I am not understanding someone please look and help meeeeeee

    thank you
    —————-

    please look at…. what?

  521. Stormcat says:

    I know that, I’m living it. And not by choice. But I have my dreams, my friends, and the people here on the blog and that’s what gets me through.

  522. SugaBeckha says:

    hello all…… well I keep on pushin and nothing….. I am not understanding someone please look and help meeeeeee

    thank you

  523. Beach_Girl says:

    Stormy ~ it’s all how you perceive it! It’s a good thing and a bad thing… all depending… Good that you get to replenish your energy and thoughts… Bad to be alone all the time…

  524. Stormcat says:

    Oh BG ~ That hurts! Seclusion is painful and you know it!

  525. Beach_Girl says:

    NYGent~ sometimes it’s better when you tell it like it is.

    Yaz~ bonne nuit! hope we get to catch up soon!

  526. Yaz says:

    BG~ Hey ma jolie! :)

  527. Yaz says:

    Half asleep and half awake here…Spent an awesome weekend in NYC 😀 Got back home not too long ago. Back to work tommorrow :(
    Good night everyone….

  528. Beach_Girl says:

    Stormy!!!! hey… How is seclusion?

    YAZ~~~ HI 😀

  529. NYGent says:

    wow, maybe the humphrey bogart “tough guy” attitude works. having been stood up tonite by some flighty 25 y.o. blond, who never showed and never even texted, I decided for thursday’s new pot date to send the following messge:

    “We have reso for thursday 8 p.m.at [__________] My cell is [_______]. pls text to confirm by Thursday morning. If I don’t hear from you by then I will cancel. I do not tolerate flaking, if I don’t hear from you by then I will cancel, that’s that. If you confirm and are more than 15 minutes late without texting, i leave, that’s that. No exceptions, no second chances. look forward to meeting you!”

    Her response: “Cool, see ya then!”

  530. Yaz says:

    Sincere~ At least you know that she was not after your $$$$. lol I’d have to say thats her loss too because size is a touchy subject for guys and some guys consider themselves ‘average’ when in reality they are very well endowed lol Her loss for not even giving you a chance to show what you meant by that plus I agree that most of the time it is how you use it that counts 😉

  531. Yaz says:

    NYGent~ Good luck! I hope this one is THE SB you have been looking for! 😀

  532. Stormcat says:

    BG – hey back! Luv ya baby and nice to see you here. I agree, Cleo is a hot one! But she’s waiting for the right guy, and when that happens, I’m sure she’ll let us all know!

  533. Ok, the question is :Should 1st sugar meets be less casual than traditional 1st dates because of the negotiation/arrangement aspect?
    ***

    I may be in the minority here, but I totally agree that a sugar 1st meet is waaay less casual/more formal than a traditional 1st date. Why? Because we all should want to put forth our BEST side, whether a SB or a SD. Babies should show their pots how beautiful and lovely being with them can be. Daddies should in turn show the babies good grooming/manners/hygeine to show that there’s so much more to them than just allowance or the arrangement itself. Taking time to put yourself together for that meeting and expressing interest and kindness and an overall pleasant attitude make it more than just an arrangement and into something wonderful both parties can anticipate!

    I’m stunned by the stories of ladies whose gentlemen are treating them so poorly or emailing crass, tasteless exchanges. I’ve been fortunate enough to speak privately with just a few of the gentlemen here and while there’s no strings in communication, they have been uniformly charming, polite and endearing! I only hope I am able to find a SD who is anything like the lovely men who post here (or who is one!)…I’m not sure if it’s what you mention in your emails or if it’s how you carry yourself, but I’ve never as a woman had a problem with men treating me in a crass manner, and this is despite being a fairly shapely girl with a strong sexual appetite.

    I’m not sure why that is…do any of the SD’s have insight on what leads to that sort of email or communication problem? Does it arise from speaking about money too soon? I can see if a SB is asking about allowance, well yes, I as a SD (or would that be SM?) would feel it ok to ask about intimate matters/spending time. But surely you have to find out at least if there’s ANY email “chemistry”. I can say without exception, everyone I’ve ever liked in email I met later IRL either in business or as a friend, I liked equally well in person. I guess you just get a feel for how people are if you see what they really say, instead of what you might be hearing.

    Have you ever thought twice about the way you presented yourself to a potential sugar? Any regrets? Any success stories or tips?

    ****
    I absolutely have thought about how I will present myself…natural but glamorous at the same time. Not overdone but classy, I would think for a coffee or casual event, a great pair of sexy dark jeans, a dressy bright & flattering short sleeve top, beautiful shoes and of course a killer smile! I try to keep my hair long and layered and use colors and styles that are the most flattering to my figure. Just like a job interview, you want to put your best foot forward.

    I hope to get hired, so to speak! :)

  534. Beach_Girl says:

    VC~ yeah, I try and catch up … but I just don’t have the time to be here a lot anymore.
    I know I just replied to you lol…

  535. VillaCypris says:

    oui, after how many weeks?????? just sent you an email back …. 😉

  536. Beach_Girl says:

    Hi VC~ finally I come here and your on!!! YAY 😀

  537. VillaCypris says:

    hi beach!!!!!!! 😀

  538. VillaCypris says:

    NYGent – must agree with you… to each his or her own…. I suppose the online forums allow people to be more specific and rule out those who don’t meet their “criteria”…. be it height, race, body type, degree level, etc.

    The more one narrows the criteria however, the more one potentially misses out on a great person. Or, if lucky, gets “exactly” what they think they want.

  539. Stormcat says:

    Cleo, Midwest ~ Either there is some kind of a pandemic that is about to wipe out the entire SB population or you two are connected. Why else would you both become ill with the same affliction simultaneously?

  540. Beach_Girl says:

    Hello Sugars 😀

    VC~ hey girl!!!

    NYGent~ she missed out… so wrong not to show up.
    One time, I was supposed to call a pot SD at a specific time. I was stuck in traffic for 5 hours (a jumper that didn’t want to jump.) so I sent a mail as soon as I got home. Pot SD lives in my city so he said he knew about the jumper. Anyways, he called me unreliable, a fake and a total bitch for not calling… Ah I didn’t have your number with me and… it’s illegal to talk on a cell in the car?!?!?! Ah well, his loss…

    Cleo~ You are an amazing women… not sure why someone didn’t snatch you up already…

    Sincere~ OMG, she asked about size and said no thanks lmao… she surely doesn’t know you practice Tantra!!! Her f’n loss…. You are a catch!

    Midwest~ feel better soon Kitten, you always have amazing advice!

    Storm~ hey!

    Lily~ miss ya girl… How is the new house?

    if I missed anyone, Hi!!!!

  541. VillaCypris says:

    cleo – awww thanks! 😀

    yea, you and i have a mutual friend so i’ve heard about you! 😉 and seen your photos…. hot!!!!!!!!!!!

    some of my best girlfriends i’ve met here on the SA blog…. so regardless of whether or not i’ve had “success” on the “site”… i’ll ALWAYS be grateful for the wonderful women i’ve met!

    and yes, it was me who updated you on Lisa. she’s doing well. still skims over the blog i think… xx

  542. NYGent says:

    sasha: there are all sorts of stereotypes in the sugar (as in IRL) world, on both sides of the aisle. Many SBs will not give a second look at an SD who’s not of a certain minimum height (“yuck! non-starter!) was one SB blogger’s statement a while back; there are SDs who won’t consider an SB below a certain “cup” size; there are SBs who only want an SD under 40, and others who will only consider one over 40; SDs who will only look at SBs under 25, and other SBs who wouldn’t dream of arranging with an SB under 30. As somebody said, there is no accounting for taste. It is pointless for people to bemoan an alleged lack of interest in their height/weight/color/income/geographical group. I would love to be a 6″10″ NBA basketball star with the Knick City Dancers at my disposal — but that ain’t happening in this lifetime. I have other assets that I hope can attract those I’d like to, but if not, that’s life in the big (or even small) city. You’ve got to accept who/what you are, seek to attract the best you can, and be philosophical about the rest. That’s my two cents, anyway!

  543. cleo says:

    sasha i don’t think midwest meant you should sleep with pots without an allowance. i think she meant you shouldn’t let the shitty dates and insulting emails get to you because they’re somewhat akin to lumps in your oatmeal rather than your breast

    wow, did i mash that up?

  544. NYGent says:

    Midwest: no one should ever question your recipe for success!

  545. cleo says:

    villa: it’s okay, we’re both on the road to wellness too!

    and you know, it’s funny because i’ve heard the same of you :)

    funny how that works around here hey? was it you that updated me on lisa? thanks for that!

  546. cleo says:

    sasha: the difference if the conversation starts again? the troll has left the building

  547. Sasha says:

    @midwest sugarbaby Hmmmm…. that is something to think about. I just can’t see myself sleeping with a pot sd to find out that he had no intention of setting up an arrangement with me and never calls me again.

    @nygent OMG let’s not even bring that topic back up again. That was a crazy crazy discussion. Being an mixed/AA girl myself and also being involved in the fashion industry and around very successful men. I see too often the type of AA girls that caucasian men may consider dating. Its a stereotype and its bad, but I can probably guess what your pot sb looks like. Anyway I’m sorry to go any further….let me stop there. I will say I hope that the pot sb date goes exceptionally well….especially if she seems sweet.

  548. Stormcat says:

    Cool! I go out for an evening and the blog turns completely insanely free. Maybe I need to be a little less boistrous.

  549. VillaCypris says:

    cleo – i’ve heard that YOU are as well 😉
    missed the fact that both of you are sick. sorry! hope you feel better soon!xxxxx

  550. cleo says:

    i’m better but for my swollen glands, hope you are improving steadily also :)
    .
    villa midwest is hella awesome just for the record

  551. Midwest SB says:

    I’m off to continue healing. Goodnight sugars!

  552. VillaCypris says:

    midwest!!!!!!!!
    it wasn’t me with the new car…. i’m definitely enjoying my 1979 450SL… just drove home from dinner and it’s STILL 89 degrees here, at 21h15!
    incroyable!
    seems like things are going well for you… happy!!!
    nyc sb told me she met up with you in vegas… and what an amazing person you are. hopefully we can meet in person someday! x

  553. cleo says:

    nygent: way to shop around this time :)

    good luck with your date! i’ll send some of my birthday fun energy at you, maybe that will help :)
    .
    midwest my version of that is: if that’s the worst thing that happens today?

    it’s a pretty good day.

  554. nygent says:

    Cleo, that is exactly the right way to handle

  555. cleo says:

    okay i live in new york now with a major PLEASE NOTE in the profile body, i’ll let you guys know what happens.
    .
    midwest she has the kind of looks that can just as easily overpower a face. i totally admire her attitude :)

  556. Midwest SB says:

    Fierce Sasha – it’s true that someone can deflate that energy in no time flat, but that is truly your choice. I read something that summarizes our choices very easily. It’s too long for the blog, but here’s the overall message:
    A lump in your oatmeal, a lump in your throat and a lump in your breast are not all the same lump. Ask yourself if this is a problem or an inconvenience.

    Most of the time, it’s just an inconvenience that is easy to overcome when our mindset is in the right place.

  557. nygent says:

    So I am a quick oh for two on my dipping toe back into sugar bowl. No matter, another pot date thursday (if she shows!). And btw there was this huge blowup a while back on how caucasion sds won’t consider african american sbs, I beg to differ my pot date is with a mixed/AA girl and no issue for me whatsoever. If she (a) doesn’t flake (b) doesn’t immediately give me the atm treatment and (c) there’s chemistry, then I am totally game. She seems sweet from her profile, will see …

  558. Sasha says:

    @midwest sugarbaby I love your advice. You do have to set yourself apart from the other sb’s. I have been on a few first meets and it seems as though I always end up stuck with someone that wants something for nothing. Its kind of hard to break past the meet in those circumstances.

  559. Midwest SB says:

    NYGent – I understand now. I will say it was a bit helpful for me, but mine were not a plane ticket away. Perhaps a helicopter ride…hot air balloon….fast boat along the lakeshore…windsurfer… :-)

  560. nygent says:

    My point is that everybody has a principal domicile, and when I see “nyc/miami/london/la” I’m like, “ok, which is it?” Pick one and explain later, multiples just give me a headache.

  561. nygent says:

    Cleo: surely. Midwest: maybe you misunderstood, I do NOT advocate multiple locales. But hey, what do I know …

  562. Midwest SB says:

    PS – Angelina is hot not just because of her looks, but because of her attitude. The world is her oyster. Nice thing is I don’t believe she takes it for granted, so there appears to be a compassionate (albeit competitive) side to her.

    Lux – Welcome! Respectful and quality input is always appreciated!

  563. Midwest SB says:

    NYGent – I will be happy to let you retain my screening skills 😀

    Cleo – agree with NYGent – put NYC, NY and Ontario

  564. cleo says:

    ny gent: not so much that nyc is my target as that i believe i hit better there. i get stared at far more in the streets of new york than toronto. here i’m just another tall, skinny, hot chick with good posture (serious, there’s scads of us here)

    that said, i’ll try this nyc suggestion anyway since none of the toronto sd’s give me a second look/date :)

    maybe if i get flown in we can have a drink?

  565. nygent says:

    Cleo: I left and scaled down a bit but still good. At least in nyc you have zillions of fallback options within a couple blocks.

    Re your profile I’d just list nyc if that’s your target. These multiple locale profiles create a muddled message.

  566. cleo says:

    ps to nygent: this is why i ALWAYS have a book in my purse when blind dating… maybe that’s another tip :)

  567. cleo says:

    luxaholic: with all due respect most of us responded to the topic in some way or another. the rest of us love people who show up and insult us as a greeting.
    .
    nygent: lame and rude

    was dinner at least awesome?

  568. nygent says:

    And before nyc sb jumps all over me, no there will not be a second chance! (Jk nyc I know you only have my interests at heart!)

  569. nygent says:

    Got stood up tonite, left waiting at beautiful nyc resto. Her last email after confirming deets was “perfect.” Guess not perfect enuf (!) — no show, no text, no nothing. Happens a lot more than you’d think, cost of doing business I guess.

  570. cleo says:

    midwest right now i live in nyc, ontario … you think i should make it ny, ny and then a note in the profile? there’s a note now as it is

    and you’re totally right about attitude. doesn’t matter how good the package if the gift inside smells bad and sulks all the time :)

    (okay if you’re as hot as angelina i retract that)

  571. Midwest SB says:

    Hi Cleo! Thanks chica!

    I think SD Guru was right about putting your location in as NYC. What I did was put Chicago, IL and Northwest in the city section and put Indiana in the state section. That way both areas were covered. I’m sure you could do the same and state in your profile you live in CAN, but love to visit the city. It should go over fine. You will definitely get those who say “call me when you’re in town” which becomes a built-in screening tool.

    VC – Yay on the new car! The dealerships always have an agenda and I’m sure you knew it going in :-) I thought you had a nice MB Convertible you enjoyed as well.

    Great posts on attitudes and perpetuating greatness! Just to provide another example: say you go out for girls night, you feel great, look great and you dance with the first guy who asks you. All of the sudden you can do no wrong as more men ask you to dance, buy you cocktails and treat your friends great in order to further impress you. It starts with one little success and grows from there!

  572. cleo says:

    oh i lied, one tip.

    remember that this is not traditional dating. if he doesn’t call or write don’t freak out. perhaps get in touch, but don’t freak out. half the reason they want an sb is because they’re too damn busy for the drama traditional dating carries like luggage…

  573. cleo says:

    everything midwest said plus location.

    some are a lot better than others :)

  574. Midwest SB says:

    Evening Sugars!

    Should 1st sugar meets be less casual than traditional 1st dates because of the negotiation/arrangement aspect? I would say have your A game on, but still be who you are, “expect” nothing but a pleasant evening, and hope for great things to come! Don’t be in a hurry to dive into the arrangement.

    Have you ever thought twice about the way you presented yourself to a potential sugar? Any regrets? Any success stories or tips? I would consider myself successful only because I’ve managed to have arrangements with two SDs after a total of six dates. First SD has asked to resume, but we have concerns that my schedule is going to meet his needs…that strikes me as both complimentary and a testament to our connection. Both men were/are genuine SDs (even if their idea of sugar varies dramatically).

    I am happy to give my SD my full attention when we are together. I keep his favorite cocktail at my home; I pay attention to the little things he enjoys such as music and sports. I genuinely enjoy his company in and out of the bedroom and he knows I’m sincere. I think some act as if there is some secret formula. Screening weeds out the fakes and having pride in being a genuine SB will bring you success.

  575. Reddamsel38 says:

    *we’ll see what you have to say then. Sorry folks tired, hard day at work.

  576. Reddamsel38 says:

    Wow new post already. This is the closest I’ve evr been to first.
    Well, for those of you who gave me advice about my profile again I thank you. I made some changes so we’ll what you will then. Until then G’night everyone I’ll catch up to you on the morrow. (i know sounds wierd something my mother use to say.)

  577. VillaCypris says:

    Luxaholic – must agree with you! Well said. what happened to common sense…. along with common courtesy, honesty, respect… the list goes on… those attributes are difficult to find in persons in one’s “real life” and online, even moreso, as it’s much too easy for people to sink into less desireable behaviours.

    Storm – saw your post on the last blog. This was not an organised ride, it was just me, and I had a good one. Only went 41 miles, and the dew point has fallen from 74 to 64, so it wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought it’d be, even with the 98 degree heat index.

    SDGuru – thanks. I agree with your follow-up post as well. Didn’t realise you have your own blog now!!!!!!!! excellent! I’ll have to check it out 😀

  578. Luxaholic says:

    You will all have to excuse me for this post (maybe), but although I haven’t posted very often, I am a frequent reader. I have had many sucesses here on this site,, and wonder what all the fuss is about. It seems for the most part.. childish comments, unrealistic expectations and complaining because you make stupid decisions and don’t like the outcomes.. coming from what should be adults on this site… what happened to common sense????

  579. Lily says:

    Youre not seeking an SB. Hence the mismatch of goals.

  580. part time sugar says:

    I have met with a few SB and even had a few arrangements in my time. it seems that most of the SB I meet through the internet have a very high opinion of what their time is worth and and even though I make it more than clear that this is a very occasional thing with me and I make Zero demands on exclusivity and availability, they are still looking for a substantial paycheck front and center, that is no way to start a relationship. I am not saying that their time isn’t worth something even right off the bat ( and by the way I always compensate them for the meet and greet) but if the first item on the agenda is can I have a regular allowance at what I suspect is a far multiple of what they make now, it is a supreme turn off.

    in business< I get proposals all the time, if they don't start out as close to reasonable for both parties at first sight ,they aren't going to happen, SB's don't seem to get this point ,at least the ones coming from the net

  581. Luxaholic says:

    First dates should be casual..as casual as if unrelated to an arrangement. The purpose of the first meeting is to establish if there is mutual “chemistry”, respect, interests, and anything else important to both parties. To learn and share more about each other, and if, at the end of the “date” you are both left wanting more..then continue with negotiations for an arrangement that works for both.
    Babies, be who you really are, leave any baggage in the closet at home where it belongs on dates, and let him see what being with you is going to be like.
    Dad’s, give us a taste of what being with you is going to be about..

  582. ElegantSugarBaby says:

    This is the closest I have ever been to first… :)

  583. SD Guru says:

    Continue from the last blog…

    @Michael

    I pride myself on being able to read people VERY well. I have really good radar. This last time, it either 1) totally failed me, 2) I totally ignored the warning signs, 3) she was good at getting past it through being a very good faker, or 4) she genuinely meant it at the time, but wasn’t able to be consistent.

    I’d guess it’s a combination of those factors and it wasn’t just one thing. With the benefit of hindsight you can go back and spot the warning signs you may have missed, and some may be as early as when you first met. When people become too confident in their own abilities that’s when they let their guard down and things can happen to bring them back down to earth. I think you’ve got the right ideas this time around so good luck with your search!

    @Cleo

    i finally get pics that are actually hot and seem to get less attention

    If you’re serious about attracting pot SD’s in NY, then I’d suggest that you change your profile location to NY and send out emails to pots there and see what happens. It’s worth a try if you haven’t tried it before.

    @NC Gent

    I am hung like a lesbian hamster

    I’m not sure what that means… and maybe it’s better that I don’t! :)

    He basically got three extended dates with an attractive young lady for about $400 a date.

    Sounds like he didn’t act in good faith. It’s similar to a SB taking a month’s allowance and then disappears after one meet. It just goes to show how difficult it can be, even if you think you have an arrangement in place, for both parties to start acting in good faith and build trust, and doing what they have agreed to do.

    @VillaCypris

    I am of the belief that “attitude” is one of the most important aspects of life which we can control

    I agree. The attitude of a pot SB should be more important than how attractive she is, and the attitude of a pot SD should be more important than how deep his pocket is.

  584. Stormcat says:

    Oh Alleycat ~ What have you done? Bribed Stephan to e-mail you and tell you what time the new topics are going to go on-line. You posted this and informed the old thread and when I looked the topic still wasn’t even available for me!

  585. Muse says:

    Lol Stephan.

  586. Michael AZ Alleycat says:

    First!

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